DD......it's easy to square it up with annihilation when you compare it to what Matt 10:28 says.
That argues in my favor. If death is simply the end or annihilation, why fear hell? Take your WT glasses off and THINK ABOUT IT.
Is Annihilation of the Unrepentant Wicked Justice?
by Ding 69 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Deputy Dog
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Think About It
That argues in my favor. If death is simply the end or annihilation, why fear hell? Take your WT glasses off and THINK ABOUT IT.
That argues in your favor? You've either got to be kidding me or are some kind of fundamentalists nut. You are trying to twist scriptures to say what they don't say. Nothing you refered too speaks of eternal torment in a hellfire for the wicked. The same text in Matt says the reference is to annihilation. To be annihilated for eternity without the hope of resurrection would be something the Jewish crowd of Jesus' time would most definately have feared. The context of Luke 12 verse 1 mentions Jesus making reference to the hypocrisy of the Pharisees.
Think About It
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Ding
So Hitler and a petty thief coming to the identical fate (annihilation) is divine justice?
No individualized penalties at all?
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designs
TAI, make an appointment for Deput Dog with the local Rabbi, all will be explained
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Think About It
So Hitler and a petty thief coming to the identical fate (annihilation) is divine justice?
Probably more divine justice than the petty sinner getting tormented forever in hellfire the same as Hitler. Keeps God from having to have created a hellfire in the first place and the logistics of providing an eternal fuel & oxygen source for the fire, along with hell maggots and demon workers to do his bidding against the sinners.
You guys might feel better about things if you concentrated more on divine love, forgiveness & mercy, than eternal torment and a warped sense of divine justice.
Think About It
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designs
Ding, go to a morgue or funeral home and look in a few coffins and report what you see.
You see the Jews over a period of 1800 years had a lot of time to think about this issue of justice and punishment and they came up with all sorts of ideas from different levels of hell to term limits. What does that tell you as a microcosm of a civilization growing and evolving from a nomadic group to agrarian to a city state.
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Deputy Dog
TAI
You are trying to twist scriptures to say what they don't say.
I guess you never stopped to THINK ABOUT why Jesus used two different words.
Check out the Greek in Mat10:28
απολεσαι G622
αποκτεινοντων G615
Nothing you refered too speaks of eternal torment in a hellfire.
Nothing but the rest of the bible. like Rev 14:11
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designs
So unJewish, grandpa Adam is so much nicer than cousin Jesus.............
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Think About It
DD.....you tried to use Luke 12:4,5 to make it say it was against annihilation. Jesus's similar words in Matt 10:28 were more clear and favored the view that people are annihilated rather than tormented as you suggested. It's pretty plain in English without trying to resort to Greek word semantics.
BTW......in Rev 14, you are aware it was written in symbolic language? The Lamb & 144,000 virgins on Mt. Zion, Babylon the Great falling, etc. It only speaks of worshipers of the Beast being tormented. Angels with sickles, winepress of God, grapes = blood as high as a horses bridle for 180 miles. In all this symbolic language you are impling that the torment, smoke, burning sulfur, etc is all going to to take place in the presence of the Lamb & angels? It's probably a pretty good bet that the torment for these Beast worshipers is symbolic. Would be twisting the scriptures to apply the torment listed here to others.
Think About It
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Ding,
I believe you see Luke 16:19-31 as literal and historical. So if rich, well dressed and well fed men get the treatment Dives received, woe to the Hitler types. Yet if Hitler repented and accepted Christ moments before his death, he will be with you and I in heaven. Many would wonder about the justice in that. But we know that Christ suffered the full cup of divine wrath/ justice for every sinner.
As I see it, the "more stripes" Jesus talks about are not literal; but rather they are corrective and disciplinary as we stand before the Son of man to give account and receive for what we have done in the body. This is where the wood hay and stuble are burned up and many of us suffer loss.
Just as the ultimate punishment for murdering one man or ten in the OT was death, there is no basis for assuming there will be variation of that in the second death. The wages of human sin is death, not torment; it never was and it never will be.
Vander