@djeggnog wrote:
Do you believe that Jehovah zaps Jehovah's Witnesses or the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses with His holy spirit? Did you ever read anything in your Bible or in any of the WTS publications to suggest that God's spirit is operating supernaturally upon any of Jehovah's Witnesses? I ask you this before many active Jehovah's Witnesses have been persuaded by other Jehovah's Witnesses to believe that if our WTS publications should direct that we, as Jehovah's Witnesses, do this or do that, or one of our interpretations of a particular scripture should be in error, that this would be proof positive that Jehovah's Witnesses do not have God's spirit and Jehovah is not directing us as an organization.
@wasblind wrote:
October 1, 2010 page 31 the last [paragraph] states: "The publishers of this journal do not hesitate to say that Jehovah Witnesses fit the Bible's description of the people having holy spirit."
you see DJ they admit that God's spirit is operating supernaturally upon Jehovah's Witnesses. I didn't make this up DJ look it up for yourself
[and]
"However, what these same folks that have this rather "interesting" understanding of what it means when Jehovah's Witnesses say that we are "led by holy spirit" fail to realize is that Jehovah never gets it wrong." Which one is it DJ ??????? the October 1,2010 WT states that jehovah Witnesses "HAVE" holy spirit, you say they are not zapped with it only led by it
it's your word against theirs, they say that the are zapped with it. read it for yourself
I am responding to two of your messages out of chronological order because that is how I like to do things, but I asked if you have ever read anything in your Bible or in any of the WTS publications to suggest that God's spirit is operating supernaturally upon any of Jehovah's Witnesses. I didn't stutter; I wanted you to respond to my question, not to the one you pretended I had asked you here.
The correct answer to the question I had asked you is NO. My question wasn't complicated at all.
If you had actually read something in the Bible indicating that God's spirit would be operating supernaturally upon anyone today, then the onus would have been upon you to post the book, chapter and verse. If you had ever read anything in any of our publications indicating that God's spirit would be operating supernaturally upon anyone today, then the onus would have been upon you to cite the citation to the WTS publication, including the page number. You didn't do either of these things because there is no book, chapter and verse, no WTS publication, where such is stated.
You are not unlike many active Jehovah's Witnesses today that read what they wish into our literature; I'd like to think illiteracy is the reason, but while this may be true for some, there are those who are just reckless and care not a thing about the truth. You have assigned your own interpretation to the words "Jehovah's Witnesses fit the Bible's description of the people having holy spirit." In fact, you've essentially repeated yourself here for, in this very thread, you stated the following:
In the October 1, 2010 watchtower on page 31, the WTS claims to be empowered by Holy Spirit.
Since you're saying the same thing, I'll also re-post here what I said to you in response:
No, such a statement isn't made on page 31 or on any page within the Watchtower you mention, the one dated October 1, 2010....
"The publishers of this journal do not hesitate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses fit the Bible's description of the people having holy spirit.Why not become better acquainted with them and decide for yourself whether they truly have God’s backing?"
You said that in this issue of the Watchtower (from which I just quoted) that "the WTS claims to be empowered by Holy Spirit," which this article clearly does not do, but, instead, asks that you decide for yourself whether Jehovah's Witnesses is that group of people manifesting the fruitage of love and peace toward others, refusing to kill their neighbor, avoiding the works of the flesh nor allowing such works, that can lead to broken homes, abhorrent diseases and even death, to be practiced among themselves, while preaching God's Kingdom as the only hope for mankind. producing the truly have God's backing.
The people that manifest the fruitage of God's spirit, those whose lifestyle indicates that they truly have God's backing are Jehovah's Witnesses. So you did make this up what you said about Jehovah's Witnesses believing and/or teaching others that God's holy spirit operates upon them or that they are empowered by God's holy spirit supernaturally. This is really a case of your reading what they wish into our literature. I also told you the following:
However, what these same folks that have this rather "interesting" understanding of what it means when Jehovah's Witnesses say that we are "led by holy spirit" fail to realize is that Jehovah never gets it wrong. They don't realize that Jehovah doesn't zap anyone with his holy spirit, but that Jehovah's Witnesses are led by what things we read in the Bible and what we discern by the things we read, so that it's we that might get it wrong at [times], but we are not unwilling to adjust our points of view when it becomes necessary to do so, such as when we realize that our understanding of what the holy spirit says in God's word was mistaken. God's holy spirit speaks through His inspired word and often it is in hindsight that we come to realize when it is that we have misunderstood what the holy spirit says, and when we do, we make the necessary adjustments in order that what things we teach as Jehovah's Witnesses are in harmony with what the holy spirit actually does say and not with what he may have thought the holy spirit was saying.
Put another way, @wasblind, you have twisted what you read in our literature so that our literature only says to you something that it really doesn't say at all to those that do not have the reading comprehension problem that you evidently have. What is more, you think you are right when you are not right. I don't believe you are an idiot, but in forming the conclusion that you have reached as to what Jehovah's Witnesses mean when we say that we are led by holy spirit or that we are led by God's spirit, or even that we have God's holy spirit, what you are saying is idiotic, for what we mean is that we are observing God's word in our lives and subjecting ourselves to the spiritual guidance that Jehovah provides to us in the Bible and nothing more.
Jehovah's Witnesses have never said nor would be ever say that we are zapped with God's holy spirit. Now you might say this, @wasblind, and you are certainly free to say whatever it is you want to say, but it doesn't really matter what you say since you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. In saying these things, you did make all of this up.
@NewYork44M wrote:
The fact that the governing body can throw out the "shingle generation" suggests that they don't care. The fact that the r&f accept the new light suggests that the governing body does not need to care.
@djeggnog wrote:
This is a new one for me: What is this "shingle generation" about which Jehovah's Witnesses do not care?
@caliber wrote:
Here is a perfect example of some tactics DJ uses... in a hidden mocking way he belittles this persons spelling mistake and [tries] to "pretend ' that he can't understand what the person is saying... Everyone with an eye and a butt hole knows the man meant to say single ! What I find more disturbing than those who don't understand is those who understand and play dumb for a few seconds to suit their purpose. Why this spelling mistake focused in on really hurts me too , is because I have struggled with some dyslexia myself !
@djeggnog wrote:
I don't care that you have had to struggle with or are currently suffering from a learning disability. We are all imperfect human beings so we all have things with which we struggle every day. I wasn't using a tactic in asking @NewYork44M what it was he meant by "shingle generation." You wanted to guess what he meant; I did not want to guess.
@NewYork44M wrote:
I had no idea I was a point of controversy. I, in fact meant to say what I said, shingle. As in overlapping shingles on a roof. The shingle generation perfectly states what the gb is attempting to do. I also stand by my statement that they don't care and don't need to care.
Perhaps @caliber will now appreciate that there was good reason for me not to assume that you didn't intend to use the word "shingle" in your post. Maybe he'll even apologize for criticizing me for not guessing wrong. (And if he's as arrogant as I think him to be, maybe not.) And I believe you're wrong about the things that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses care. The governing body is every much Jehovah's Witnesses as are the rest of us, and we all care about our neighbor, all caring about helping our neighbors to survive Armageddon. You're mistaken.
@djeggnog wrote:
But if you did not do this, if, instead, you put your trust in the men you celebrated, in nobles, your faith in the thoughts and sayings of earthling man, whose thoughts have all perished at death, [you have only yourself to blame]. If we ourselves are guilty of ignoring Jesus' advice to "pay attention to how [we] listen," and are guilty of having put our truth in the sayings of men and not in what God's word says, then we must now reconsider our steps and check our misdirected anger, for happy are those who have put their trust in Jehovah and not in these celebrated men "to whom no salvation belongs," who have put their truth in the One who sent His son to help us, to release us from the bondage of the reasonings of such men, the God that released us when we were bound. (Psalm 146:3-7)
@Listener wrote:
I really am puzzled as to who you are eggnog, whether you are in a position of authority within the org or a [wolf] in [sheep's] clothing. I do think that you have either been asked or are self appointed to write on this forum in the hope that you can encourage those fading to return. No doubt you would advise that it is not important who you are.
You're absolutely correct; it is not important for you to know who I am, but since Jesus was asked this very same question at Matthew 21:23, answer my question first and only then will I tell you from where my authority comes. (Matthew 9:8) From what source did John's baptism come? "From heaven or from men?" (Matthew 21:25) Or answer this one: Who are the prophets that will be reclining at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in God's kingdom? (Luke 13:28, 29)
I believe there would be other elders who feel the same way as your comments made above. They are the lucky ones as they have the confidence in their own faith and relationship with Jehovah to feel this way.
Unfortunately, not all elders believe the Bible is God's word, as evinced by what @Gary1914 only just shared with me in this thread. Luke has nothing to do with the relationship that Jehovah's Witnesses have with Jehovah or their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
The problem is that the r & f would feel guilty to call themselves a JW and take this stand. They are told and taught to trust the FDS, to believe what they say, to not form their own opinions, to do what they say and it is them that are speaking on behalf of God. Unfortunately it is this goal of unity that has caused the FDS to discourage your above attitude generally amongst JWs.
There is no such thing as a rank and file among Jehovah's Witnesses; that is a misnomer since all Jehovah's Witnesses are a united Christian brotherhood in which our brothers and sisters are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28) What you say here about the faithful and discreet slave having a role in discouraging any of Jehovah's Witnesses is ludicrous.
I sincerely hope that one day the org will teach to have the above attitude about them and their teachings and that way individuals will feel that they really are serving God [wholeheartedly] rather than an organization.
What exactly did you mean by saying this?
@djeggnog
