by PSacramento 59 Replies latest jw friends
PS, I love BD and hope all works out for him..
frankly I went through a mini phase where I backed away from JW net myself... ultimatly I found balance and I'm sure BD will be back and have a new lease on JW net when he does.
No one should be afraid of questions or answers that those questions bring.. Dan was NOT attacked, he is just going through a lot and that makes everything seem much more harsh... he just needs to sort it out a bit
God is Evil ...
ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG, YOUR GOD IS EVIL AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS WRONG! And if you dont believe in God then your Mom is Evil...
Lets see how many people leave.... counting........ counting.........
Just to beat this dead horse a little more (I think most people are on the same page already)...
Since when does "questioning" = "attacking" and "attempting to destroy"?
Indeed. Welcome to the Internet - an open marketplace for the free expression of ideas.
However, just because you share an idea doesn't mean everybody is required to accept it. If you're going to claim that humans can survive in the stomach of a fish for three days - a place filled with hydrocloric acid and very little oxygen - then you better be prepared to accept the fact that some people are going to find flaw in that idea. If observing that humans require oxygen to survive is an 'attack against your faith'... that makes a very poor statement regarding your education and/or critical thinking skills.
If you can't accept the notion that every idea is subject to scrutiny and critism - the Internet probably isn't the best place for you, as it apparently wasn't for Bro. Dan.
- Lime
Dan is intelligent, honest, sincere, caring and an exceptional human being.
I REALLY wish people would lay off of BD. I always read whatever he posts with great interest. I hope he's not really going to be gone for long. For those of us who love BD, please lay off. If not for his sake, then for those of us who care about him.
I hope he comes back. I really do. I just don't want to see people doing and saying things that might make that less likely. Please lay off of him.
Brotherdan seems to have left and before he did he psoted this:
So this is goodbye. Thanks for the help in getting out of the cult. But thanks for nothing in your attempts to destroy the faith of other people (inluding mine).
>> Your welcome. And your welcome for nothing. What was that all about? Ok now without judgement. The JWs in my family wont talk to me because they ANYTHING I say will be take as if I am trying to attack their faith. Basically they are saying I am right you are wrong and if you say something that I dont believe in you are attacking my faith... Sounds familiar?
Does he have a point?
>>Does he? He started a thread and then when people presented evidence and information on his thread he felt attacked... Does he have a point? Is like when people get offended if you post something on THEIR thread. There is nothing more appealing than hearing people presents different points of view and see who can defend their point of view, who can argue back with evidence and who recurs to attack the poster.
Now, as most of you know, I personally do NOt think that having our faith questioned or attacke dis a BAD thing, it cause us to not only endure but to truly understand what we believe and why we do it, just like the early apologist did.
>>Yes and that is fantastic!
At the same time though I wonder how many people that were trying to leave the WT got turned back by not just the attack on THEIR faith but FAITH in general.
>>Why do you leave the WT? Because you find out the WT told you lies. Whatever we say here has nothing to do the WT telling lies. When I came here first I only read the posts that were related with the WT and nothing else. I stayed clear from any discussion that had to do with the existence of God. Nobody attacked my Faith. they attacked my reasonings. AND THANKS FOR NOTHING atheists! Now you make me one of you.
Do some truly try to attack and destroy people's faith?
>>Can any one really attack your faith? is that even possible? I dont think so. Faith is personal. Is a desision that you and only you can take for yourself. If you based your faith on what others say, then your faith is based on the wrong reason anyway. If your faith is strong it will move mountains..... remember? or so they say.
I have a problem with this word "faith" as religious people throw it around. Jesus said that a tiny amount of "faith" the size of a mustard grain can cause a person to have great powers. He likened it to making a mountain move from one place to another. What did he mean by this "faith"? I believe he meant "knowing". When you KNOW you can do something, you DO IT! When you "believe" you can do something, you leave the door open to fall short. When you "know", then falling short doesn't deter you, it just makes you try again.
One of my main objectives is to try to get people, especially Christians, and particularly JW's or ex-JW's, to realize that "beliefs" don't mean a heck of a lot as far as being "saved". The only "belief" that's going to save you is the KNOWLEDGE that you were never lost in the first place.
Simply "believing" that Jesus died for our sins and that we are saved as a result is probably the biggest hindrance to spiritual growth and keeps a person in third-eye-blind la-la land. One of the big secrets that's been kept from us (mostly by the Roman Church) is that since Christ is a consciousness and an energy, we can all BE Christs and hence our inner Divine Spirit. This is borne out by the fact that the Watchtower claims that the "anointed" are all "Christs".
Another suppression is that we are all one and we are all connected, so eloquently stated in our Great Master's prayer in the 17th chapter of John. The last thing the ruling elite want people to know about is the power of unified group consciousness. A small minority has always been able to change the world and that is still how it works. One person shining a light in a dark place allows many to see. Separateness is an illusion. While we have individuality, we are all capable of going "online", but our modems have been disabled by negative programming. The teachings of Masters like Buddha and Jesus and many others show us the WAY to turn them on.
~PS
If Dan is reading this then I urge him to remember that among all those who have worked to expose the Watchtower, the three that were the most instrumental and essential to starting and maintaining that endeavor remained Christians. Ray Franz, James Penton and Carl Olof Jonsson all remained believing Christians, active Christians. These men are neither deluded nor stupid. They were and are Christians who have rightly divided wrong religion from what the Bible itself teaches. Christians who if it were not for them many of us would still be in the Watchtower. How many here who have called Christians derogatory names would use those same names with these men? I agree that Dan has invited controversy, his faith is cemented to his person. To leave and get some peace for while is a good thing, Dan.
It sounds nice to say that science is the pursuit of pure truth but the reality is quite different. Science is sometimes the pursuit of pure truth and the rest of the time it is the pursuit of getting published, it is the pursuit of many things that have little to do with finding pure truth. Scientific pursuit wallows in the same man/woman soup that all human endeavors must endure, and yes, religion as well. Scientific pursuits are rife with just as many manipulative and stupid and greedy people as politics and religion are. To believe otherwise is to exist in another fantasy world.
I think the WAY things are being said is important.
Example: "That stupid, shmuck coward God in the Bible" vs. "In my reading of the Bible, God's actions appear cowardly"
I think we can argue against things we dont' believe without being disrespectful or abrasive. I think this should go for JWs too. Do we really need to call them names and call them evil heartless.... the faithless and demented slave or whatever name people are making?
I think the arguments and facts, respectfully presented, should be strong enough to speak for themselves.
laverite: So are you suggesting that we censor ourselves? This is not an attack on anyone, but the same we analyze the actions of the WT we analize the actions of the elders, of the anti-gays and the gays. Of me for christ's sake.
Thats the beauty of this place. Aguest can have her threads and I can read them or not. Psacramento can talk about God and Christ and Terry about his Music. And some of us, well we dont really have anything to talk so we just jump into your conversations.
