by PSacramento 59 Replies latest jw friends
Leaving the Watchtower may be likened to one of the phases of Positive Disintegration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration
This board just helps.
We all take on our OWN values, if we grow enough.
We don't all have the SAME values.
BTS
They were and are Christians who have rightly divided wrong religion from what the Bible itself teaches.
>>So all the muslims hindus taoists mormons and anyone who doesnt believe in the bible is wrong? thats it i am out of here!
Christians who if it were not for them many of us would still be in the Watchtower. How many here who have called Christians derogatory names would use those same names with these men?
>>Exactly who call Christians derrogatory names? I think that I have heard more derrogatory names on Atheist on this site second only to Jehovah :-)
LOL, goodbye then. ;)
That said, I don't think that faith being questioned is the issue, I think that perhaps HOW it is questioned is.
I think each in their own mind knows when they have crossed the line from being reasonable & firm to going into
"shock and awe attack mode" !! Even the moderators here must set reasonable limits , you can't go on unbridled with every word that first
pops into your brain. The best cure for people to stop taking offense is not giving them reason to do so in the first place !
Why can't we all try to take some sort of lesson away for ourselves to remember and apply ? Spread the blame around a little
Understand BrotherDan's rollercoaster of emotions he is on... goodness knows he was very open in sharing his troubles here !
Wars (force ) are fought when diplomacy(seeking common ground ) fails.. then after the war ..what works best ?? ....diplomacy
There are some people who have been " Christians ", Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, ANY member of a high control group that are taught and have it pounded into them by elders, pastors , or whoever that if you don't believe in God, Jehovah, or a higher power - you are evil, period. No questions allowed. It's that all or nothing, black & white, either/or mentality which makes people see an imaginary dividing line in their heads - which is created by many cults or religions to instill FEAR into their members of leaving into the alleged scary " world ".
I think that possibly in Brother Dan's situation - he may have been experiencing cognizant dissonance in what he's been taught and it perhaps frightened him of the information he was learning here on the board. That's totally understandable it would frighten him. He & all JW's are CONDITIONED to be frightened of anything not sanctioned or approved by the WT society.
Most people on this board , myself included, aren't interested in shaking up anyone's faith inasmuch as we are interested in making people think with a clear, free, open , critical thinking mind . That's all people are trying to do for the most part here from what I can see. And if that causes a person to analyze or question their faith or beliefs - that's a good thing , a positive, not a negative. If after analyzing things a person wants to go back to mind control of JW land - it's certainly one's right . But personally, having been duped by the WT society for 44 years - I feel a sense of responsibility to speak out and express everything I know about injustices I've seen. If that offends some, oh well- it can't be helped. That's on them and how they respond. Won't cause me to back down from what I know is right to speak of
Honestly, I think that there is just too much going on for him at this time. It's not that he is a drama queen, or unable to take cricism. It's just all too much at once. Finding out the truth about JWs, wife not listening, threat of losing family, elders, loss of JW faith, trying to keep some faith, new ideas conflicting with ideas he's trying to hold on to . . . it becomes too much. I think he needs a break. Dealing with every one of these things at once can drive a person crazy. It's not healthy. It's scary to have a belief and think you have it all figured out and then . . . WHAM . . . it's all gone! You try to keep a shred of hope. You try to keep some of your beliefs, even if the evidence is lacking. You once had a future of forever and now it's threatened. It's scary and it's overwhelming. It's hard to break free of mind control. It's hard to get through to your own thoughts and mind.
Dan - if you are reading this . . . you are a kind, sincere, honest and loving individual. You do what is best for you and your family. Take one thing and one day at a time. You can't figure out everything at once. Breathe! Take a break. Exercise, spend quality time with your family, get involved in a hobby, something to build you up. Take care of your inner being. Everything shifts and changes with time.
I wish you all the very best. There are a lot of people that care about you here. You would be welcomed back with open arms if that is what you choose to do one day.
Peace and healing to you.
Hadit
I don't know much about BrotherDan specifically, but I notice that believers on forums like this seem not to like non-believers expressing their opinions because believers want to take advantage (not necessarily maliciously) of the confusion and searching of those who are doubting the WT religion. Something like: "The WT is wrong, but I have personal relationship with Jesus to sell you, so don't listen to those evil atheists!"
However, arguing on the internet is a soul-eating, time-sucking endeavor. Everyone should take a break every once in a while and reassess if it's really worth it. I can understand someone leaving.
Finally, I don't worry much about offending religious people. They can be offended by nearly anything, even if all you're doing is criticizing their beliefs. One should retain some decency if they wish people to listen to them, but dancing around the truth to avoid making people uncomfortable is a slippery slope.
BXJW: It sounds nice to say that science is the pursuit of pure truth but the reality is quite different. Science is sometimes the pursuit of pure truth and the rest of the time it is the pursuit of getting published, it is the pursuit of many things that have little to do with finding pure truth. Scientific pursuit wallows in the same man/woman soup that all human endeavors must endure, and yes, religion as well. Scientific pursuits are rife with just as many manipulative and stupid and greedy people as politics and religion are. To believe otherwise is to exist in another fantasy world.
BXJW, that's a lovely strawman you've built but here's what I actually said about science:
SBC: True, science is something different: a search for truth, not contentment and peace.
When I say science, I'm referring to a fundamental method, for its method is what produces the bodies of reliable knowledge in various domains. Within that method, scrutiny and testing are not suppressed, but required. Science seeks to root out bias. The same cannot be said for faith.
Nowhere did I claim all scientists have altrustic reasons for their endeavors. That would be ridiculous. Thank you for not so much as implying I believe otherwise. The strawman has been sufficiently burned down.
ERIC: However, arguing on the internet is a soul-eating, time-sucking endeavor. Everyone should take a break every once in a while and reassess if it's really worth it. I can understand someone leaving.
Yeah, I'm about to have to set some rules for myself. Accessing this forum at work is killing my productivity.
Most people on this board , myself included, aren't interested in shaking up anyone's faith as much as we are interested in making people think with a clear, free, open, critical thinking mind
Well said, Mr. Flipper
