Why You Loyal Witnesses Should Oppose Disfellowshipping

by metatron 33 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  caliber

  I agree that there are pro's and con's to disfellowshipping ..for example loud disturbances can't to tolerated at meeting places.

  It is a bible based teaching gone bad or extreme due to the man -made procedure that is used to enforce it.

  Bible based hearings were held at the front gates" in public"... secrecy makes for human abuse of the whole idea

  The Star Chamber (Latin Camera stellata) was an Englishcourt of law that sat at the royal Palace of Westminster until 1641. It was made up of Privy Counsellors, as well as common-law judges, and supplemented the activities of the common-law and equity courts in both civil and criminal matters. The court was set up to ensure the fair enforcement of laws against prominent people, those so powerful that ordinary courts could never convict them of their crimes. Court sessions were held in secret, with no indictments, no right of appeal, no juries, and no witnesses. Evidence was presented in writing. Over time it evolved into a political weapon and became a symbol of the misuse and abuse of power by the English monarchy and courts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Chamber

  The protection of the WTS at all cost seems to be the primary objective above all other interests..such that people who have differing

  idea's from the WTS or the whole pedophile issue becomes" misdirected justice."

  Noone will argue mostly likely that rat poison is a effective way to get rid of rats. But what of the protection and proper concerns of those who are not rats ?

  All human systems need counterbalances to ensure true justice ! There is an appeal system for WT disfellowshipping but again

  I have seen it... the primary goal again is to protect the WTS and support the original elders if there is anyway possible.

  Also the Bible lists about 7 or eight sins but the WtS has expanded that to well over 100 ( by extension of course ! )

  Scales of justice must always have balancing points. Without proper objectives and intent to begin , with very little justice can be attained

  and yet there is more ...

  It's not just the actual disfellowshipping. The "process" of re-instatement that they have invented is harsh, demeaning, humiliating
• 

  sd-7

  I was told directly by elders NOT to help the woman who is now my wife, back when she was DF'd. I find it odd that the domain of helping people has to pass through the body of elders before it gets to the person who needs help. Did Jesus run and get permission from the High Priest before he healed people? Of course not! It's stupid reasoning. The WT talks out of both sides of its mouth about issues like that.

  The term 'disfellowship' does not exist in the Bible--ironically the same foundation the JWs use to debunk the Trinity--you know, like the term "Governing Body" or the title, which they may as well capitalize, of "Faithful and Discreet Slave". Anyway, Paul told Christians not to eat with certain kinds of people, but he never said not to greet them, and he also told Christians to work what is good towards ALL. Jesus did not shun people. I think his illustration of the good Samaritan could easily be adapted to the Good Disfellowshipped--someone despised, avoided by JWs who could just as easily help them as anyone else. Doing good to one's neighbor, in imitation of Jesus, is not bound by any religious creed or set of rules.

  Loyalty for Witnesses is about loyalty to the organization first, because the line between God and "his organization" is either blurry or non-existent for them. I think I ended up hammering on this issue with my wife to the point where even she wanted to put 'the organization' out of the conversation altogether and deny that her loyalty was to it first. It's an idol, and the disfellowshipping arrangement is a tool used to maintain the idolatry, which in itself is equally as immoral as anything that any one person could do.

  I heard one MS, now an elder, comment at a meeting that we should follow 'Jehovah's organization' the same way the Israelites followed the pillar of smoke in the wilderness. That pillar of smoke represented the presence of God himself. If that doesn't smack of idolatry, I don't know what does.

  Disfellowshipping would have meaning if it wasn't done with smoke and mirrors and the scriptures from various parts of the Bible weren't misapplied to make it an extreme form of shunning. But frankly, I don't think Jesus would have allowed something like that. After all, he found the blind beggar who was healed AFTER he got thrown out of the synagogue. That tells me all I need to know about how Jesus feels about disfellowshipping. (John 9:35-39)

  -sd-7
• 

  steve2

  As heartless as the doctrine of disfellowshipping can be, it is taught in the Bible. The Apostle Paul's words were especially clear. At the same time I acknowledge that the Bible verses supportive of disfellowshipping can be used by any religiuos organization for their own purposes. So, to say that a doctrine or practice is based on the Bible doesn't mean much. But I wish more people who are critical of the JWs would at least acknowledge that it is not a modern, invented doctrine but based on old writings that are at leat 2,000 years old. If you must pick on the practice of disfellowship, excommunication or whatever it is called, identify the source of the practice: The Bible.
• 

  Nickolas

  I shake my head at people rationalizing a barbaric and inhumane practice. It is not so much disfellowshipping as shunning. Is it right for parents to shun a child who was baptised but who has lost his faith in the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society yet still associate and show kindness to another child who was never baptised and never had faith to lose? This has happened in my wife's family. Shunning is not love, no matter how you dress it up. It is a hateful, inhumane and hypocritical practice for which all you Witnesses of Jehovah should feel the deepest shame. Shame on you. Whatever respect I had for you and your Society is gone.
• 

  sd-7

  Yes, the concept is BASED on the Bible, but so is 1914! The groundwork for it is there, in the Bible, but we have scant details on how that was done. Okay, so you don't 'mix' with fornicators or greedy people, but do you not greet them at all? Do you not help them if they're in need? The Bible doesn't say, in that context, and the Bible is, at the same time, very clear that we should love even our enemies. Sinners are not by definition enemies, as we are all sinners and Jesus died for us BEFORE we repented. If the concept's application is incomplete, then it becomes a spiritual minefield to even attempt to use it in modern times. This is why the JWs and others have caused so much pain. I'm not sure if I blame that on the Bible so much as I blame it on legalism.
• 

  steve2

  This is why the JWs and others have caused so much pain. I'm not sure if I blame that on the Bible so much as I blame it on legalism.

  For me to state that the concept of disfellowshipping is based on the Bible is not the same as "blaming" the ancient writers for it. Yes, you're right: Lots of ancient ideas are given modern twists by modern religionists. Equally, however, lots of ancient ideas - even those in Scripture - are repulsive to modern minds. For example, the "heroic" Scriptural accounts of Jehovah or Yahweh ordering his "special" people to wipe out entire peoples occupying the Promised Land (genocide).
• 

  Soldier77

  I agree that there are pro's and con's to disfellowshipping ..for example loud disturbances can't to tolerated at meeting places.

  Wait, what? Unruly people should be disfellowshipped? Just ask them to leave, they come back, tell them they are no longer welcome.

  There are no pro's or con's to DF'ing. Period. People that commit a crime get sent to prison, but they are not shunned, at least not complete shunning, they still talk to and interact with fellow prisoners.They break a religious rule? Fornicate, sin in some way (read: not commit a crime mind you, I'm just talking basic "sins") then revoke their membership and say have a nice day. But that doesn't mean you treat them like shit.

  Treating like someone as the disfellowshipping done by JWs is inhumane. No one should be treated like they do not exist. No one should have to look down or away from another human being because of some stupid religious rules. Animals get more respect than someone shunned, it's wrong.

  Someone is a threat to society then do something about it, try him, convict him if found guilty send him to prison or rehab, or counselling. Maybe even the death sentance if they committed an atrocity. But don't treat him like he doesn't exist.

  Oh and yes, I'm pretty passionate about this, I've been DF'd twice. Trust me, their is nothing "pro" about it, in fact all it did was train me how the system works and worked the system after getting reinstated the second time. No good came from it.
• 

  sir82

  Nursing home?!?

  But they promised me that I'd "never grow old in this system of things"!

  Of course, that promise was made 41 years ago.....

  All kidding aside, I think this will become a bigger and bigger issue as time goes on. The core group of loyal JWs is getting old, and those who had kids more than likely saw at leasst half of them "fall out of the truth".

  So who's going to go to the nursing home? Bobby & Betty Elder who are "too busy because they have to get their time in", or Jane Prodigal, who is disfellowshipped but has the keenest sense of love & responsibility?
• 

  metatron

  I appreciate your posts. I just want to re-emphasize the single point that, by any fair definition, (certainly not the warped definitions invented by the Watchtower for whatever it wants) the Watchtower is creating and declaring df'd people to be enemies. Even Knorr made the hateful and twisted remark (published in the Watchtower) that 'Caesar' didn't permit the organization to execute people - as if that was desired!

  How do identify an enemy? How do you treat one? That was how Jesus reasoned on the matter of what a 'neighbor' was. You won't even say 'Hello'? Won't talk to them at all? And this is some '1984' form of "love"?

  In addition, the very idea of giving 'window washing' elders such power is an absurdity. You don't give a very young child power tools and kittens!The practise of giving elders such power leads directly to corruption - such as special mercy and treatment of fellow elders' kids and relatives while dealing harshly with others, especially the disadvantaged. It also leads to corruption such as df'ing kids that turn against the organization after being molested!

  metatron
• 

  JW GoneBad

  Disfellowshipping is mean, cruel, harsh, inconsiderate, hurtful, painful and atrocious by itself. And then the d'fd person faces the reinstatement process which opens the wounds. I personaly know of numerous individuals who have been made to jump thru hoops in order to get reinstated. I'm talking about 4, 5, or 6 letters requesting reinstatement. Many/most judicial committees are down right vicious!