Does the Bible Teach a Second Chance After Death?

by Ding 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Hi Ding, this is the crux of the matter, relying solely on the Bible for answers is not the right attitude at times we need to relegate it to the back seat and allow common sense and rational thought to take over and explore the unknown, the Bible particularly the new testament is far too small to give answers to all questions, in fact to most questions. It gives us a good basis to build on and many issues we need to work out without it. It is the JW, similar to many protestant groups, belief that the Bible contains all we need to know whereas it only contains a small fraction of what we need to know. They also believe it is unadulterated whereas at least in the new testament around 10 - 12% of verses are tainted, they were interpolated or altered as Origen was writing already back in the late second century there were people who "through negligence or perverse audacity" were altering the gospels. There is no need to be clingy to the so called Bible inerrancy though no doubt it contains numerous valuable truths.

    Now as for the second life it is obvious that for people who never got the chance to hear the gospel or who were too coerced to be able to follow their choices will be treated differently from those who knew and had their freedom of choice to do as they wished. See also the comparison between the Jews of Jesus's days and the people of Sodom and Gomorah, their fate during their second life after the resurrection. Logically if they are to be fair to everyone then all will have to be judged while operating in the same conditions free of ignorance and coercion.

  • MarcusScriptus
    MarcusScriptus

    Though I like the humorous possibilities of the reading as it stands in my previous answer, accidentally placed from the un-checked version from my word processor, the next to the first paragraph after the "HELL" subheading above should read:

    And while this would also mean that the new physical resurrected body would also be doomed to suffer in Hell, one must forget the JW teachings on what Christendom believes about eternal judgment. Except for a few Fundamentalists, the “fire and brimstone” are symbolic of what life without love and human contact must be like. Hell is the condition of living without God, and thus without anything that reflects God-like qualities. One thus doesn’t experience other persons or demons or light or enlightenment or anything else.

    A Freudian-slip uncovering my true views on the subject? Regardless, I am talking about what others believe, and I made a boo-boo on how I wrote it. So sorry about the bad formatting and typing job! (Please see my upcoming book, The Watchtower Made Me a Bad Typist, soon available in the coloring book section next to my previous work, Why Satan Posed for So Many Illustrations in The Watchtower and Other Funny Things the Devil Does with JWs.)

    Again, the original reading is funny and may actually be the view of many of my friends and neighbors. Right on!

  • GrandmaJones
    GrandmaJones

    What about the scripture saying that the resurrected will be judged on the basis of the new scrolls to be opened at that time?

    And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.

    Any thoughts? Wouldn't God's purpose be to base his judgement on actions taken after the resurrection?

    I don't know. My opinions are in a state of flux right now.

  • designs
    designs

    One of the basic concepts of Judaism was that all humans can be rehabilitated in the next life.

    How did Christianity gets so off the mark coming from, supposedly, Jewish roots.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    I enjoyed your post, Terry and found it to be very truthful.

  • MarcusScriptus
    MarcusScriptus

    Don’t forget, GrandmaJones, that the teaching that the “scrolls” of Revelation 20:12 contain “new” revelation is totally an invention of the Governing Body of JWs (likely a carryover from some Adventist views).

    Also the expression “new” does not occur in Revelation 20:12 regarding the scrolls. That is a so-called “brainwashing" effect the Watchtower does with its “speak”* that it indoctrinates people with. The text merely reads that “scrolls” or “books” were opened, including “the Book of Life” and that people were judged according to what was found “written in the books, according to their works” or “as their deeds deserved.”—New Jerusalem Bible.

    There is no hint at anyting "new" being found in these.

    These scrolls or books are symbolic for the type of name a person made for themselves in their previous life, before their deaths. The text does not read that people were to be judged according to a new law or new information. That is tantamount to saying that the covenant under Christ is to be replaced because it is inefficient to bring people to perfection. This odd JW interpretation is actually claiming that something more than Christ must be added in order for the resurrected dead to gain life. That is heretical in the most condemned of senses according to Christology. Such a teaching is considered to be anathema because the Witnesses are already claiming that there is more to be added to the inspired text and revelation found in Christ, claiming on one hand that the Bible is complete but on the other that it isn't .

    For the Witnesses who do not believe that there is life as a soul after death, how can the “dead” be judged “according to their works”? According to JW theology, the dead don’t do anything; they can’t. To the JW, the dead have nothing to be judged for. Unless one invents a new law to be worthy to be judged perfect for life—replacing Christ—then this text has to mean what the rest of Christendom teaches: that the scrolls are symbolic of the past deeds of people, not future deeds.

    Anything else and you don’t end up with a religion that qualifies as gospel anymore.

    Designs: Being from a Jewish background I can attest that while some individual Jews may have such a belief, what you state is not nor has it ever been a basic tenet of general Jewish belief about death. Jewish concepts can be easily misunderstood by those who are unfamiliar with how Judaism understands eschatological elements. These can, and often do, have extensive and stark differences when compared to other theologies, especially that of the Christians.—See Jewish Beliefs on the Afterlife for starters.

    Christian eschatology has its origins in what was experienced by the disciples at Christ’s resurrection, and it grew from that point. It is not based on the Jewish views at all. In fact the gospel of Christ totally transforms them. They were part of the so-called “new wine” that could not fit into “old wineskins.”—Mark 2:22.

    *--Another example of Watchtower speak is the text where the apostles ask "to whom shall we go"? The Governing Body has the JWs believing that they are asking "where else" or "what other organization" does one go to? This is part of their brainwashing technique to replace the quote of a Biblical text--which surrounds the identity of a PERSON--and twist it by telling people it applies to an inanimate object--an ORGANIZATION. Like the "new" scrolls technique, the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has millions misquoting Scripture as "Where else shall we go?" This text, however, is about a person, Jesus, not a religion or denomination or organization.--John 6:68.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    God ultimately judges man by what's in his heart. Indeed, a man cannot be saved or damned in ignorance. Peter says that while Jesus' body lay in the tomb, his spirit went to teach the "spirits in prison," which once were disobedient in the days of Noah. Despite the wickedness that existed in Noah's day, it stands to reason that some were ignorant. There also were women and children who may have had good souls, but were trapped by circumstance. Nevertheless, Jesus opened the prison gates for the preaching of the Gospel to the spirits therein.

    Origen, which many consider the greatest of Christian theologians, wrote: "After death, I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees." This was written before Origen joined the doctors, so it reflected the earliest Christian traditions.

    One scholar writes: "Clement of Alexandria and Origen, those two earliest fathers, each having one foot in the old church and one in the new, characteristically accepted the doctrine of eternal progression at first, then rejected it when the schoolmen finally talked them out of it. In Origen's universe there are more exalted beings who leave the less exalted beings further and further behind. He compares their advancements to a series of examinations and makes much of the three degrees of glory -- 'three celestial levels, like the sun, the moon, and the stars.' According to him, the visible world is only a small fraction of the invisible world, which in turn is only a small fraction of the potential world that is to become reality in the aeons ahead."

    Just because a man dies, it does not mean that judgment follows immediately. The scripture simply says that after death comes the judgment. If one believes that a person ceases to exist at death, then there can be no time to be taught. You simply get judged for what you did or didn't do during life. To me, that would be unjust. Those who have near death experiences frequently report that they have "life reviews," where they vividly recall parts of their lives where they had hurt others, or done wickedly. They report that they aren't judgments, but ways of teaching, or learning, and that a spirit of love permeated it all. These experiences come from all cultures and religious backgrounds. By repeatedly doing life reviews, spirits progress to higher levels.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that during Armageddon, all will be resurrected and then will be judged by which side they take in the great battle. All will have the opportunity of going either with Jehovah's forces or Satan's. This ignores man's obligations to accept Christ and be baptized, and it makes no sense to me. Armageddon will actually be fought in the Middle East, and involve the forces of a European or Asian dictator which John calls "the beast." The target of the battle will be Jerusalem, and the beast will attack the holy city. When Jehovah returns, he will destroy the forces of the beast so that only a sixth of them will be left. Why a sixth? Because some of those forces will be innocent -- some will have been inducted into the military and others will have been forced into serving the beast. In any event, they will be spared. Jerusalem, too, will have been ravaged, and many of the inhabitants killed. So only a small number of Jews will be left to greet the returning Messiah.

    Bottom line: Yes, there will be, in my view, chances to progress and grow after this life. To simply draw a line and say, "That's it!" -- is not just, and God, by nature, is Just.

  • tec
    tec

    What about the scripture saying that the resurrected will be judged on the basis of the new scrolls to be opened at that time?

    There is no reason to think that these are 'new' scrolls, but rather remembrances of what we have done. Agreed with Marcus, the 'new' scrolls is a WT addition/interpretation. No basis.

    Tammy

  • GrandmaJones
    GrandmaJones

    Tec, Marcus

    I never realized what I have been reading into that scripture. I will think about this.

  • designs
    designs

    Marcus- if you look under the headings of Judgement and Hell it says the wicked can be in hell up to 12 months and in certain levels of punishment and then be brought up to Gan Eden. Rehab.. There is the comment about those with unbelief having no part in a resurrection but most today see it the more positive way ie punishment is meant for a purpose that being to straighten people out. Not to many things are dogmatic in Judaism like people see in Christianity but helping people along in their journey is a very Jewish thing and they ascribe similar empathies to G-d.

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