"Are you In the Truth?" (page 4)

Nickolas

Well, since we seem to have hit an hiatus in the conversation, allow me to expand the context of The Truth just a little.

It has already been said that without Genesis the Watchtower version of The Truth falls apart. That is, if the Adam and Eve story isn't true, PSacramento, then how could the story of God sending his Son down to redeem us for that Original Sin be true? The New Testament gospels of Matthew and Luke present the geneology of Jesus of Nazareth tracing back to Adam. Is this allegory? If so, what is the purpose?

Again, we are discussing The Truth as represented by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. If we're all agreeing that it's bunk, then let's examine why it is bunk.

zoiks

In Rock of Ages, Stephen Jay Gould posited that religion and science are 'nonoverlapping magisteria'. The same could be said of fact and faith. They don't need each other, and some would say that they can play well together. But history and experience show that things start to get really interesting when people are confronted with facts that contradict their faith.

Some ignore the facts, finding comfort in soothing words from apologists. Study the society's publications more to make your faith stronger!.

Some embrace the facts and dispose of their faith. I am now an atheist.

Some try to reconcile the facts with their faith, often needing to dispose of some bits and blend other bits together into a mishmash that they feel comfortable with. The bible isn't meant to be taken literally, except that parts that I take literally.

I suppose I am in the second group. Coming from a born-in JW background and discovering that the facts overwhelmingly contradicted my faith, I chose the facts. I chose the truth. (I guess I should also add, so as not to ruffle too many feathers of the faithful, that I chose the facts that are available to me. I cannot speak to the religious or spiritual experiences that some may have had.)

oldlightnewshite

I think the truth as presented by the WT$ is on shaky ground. The facts you've brought up cannot be denied. The problem is that the WT$ accepts and tries to interpret the whole bible. Other religions will pass off certain parts as allegorical. I just don't see how you can cherry-pick parts of the bible that fit your own personal interpretation. To me, purely on a spiritual level, (even though I'm an atheist) the bible seems to kick into gear at the gospels. The tenets of love and consideration that Jesus preached make for a wholly more believable god than the old testament's bloodthirsty tyrant Jehovah. The problem is that Jesus alludes to early bible times as factual occurences.

For me it's simple. Why would god have misleading parts and/or untruths in his holy word? For an entity that created all the complexities of life, and yet be unable to make sure his words to us are at least accurate seems unfathomable. Why would god lie? Why would he dumb down the creation account by using terminology like 'god said let there be....' '...and it appeared, and it was good'. If god used evolution as a means to create life on earth, then why not just say that?

I've always had a problem with the plain facts about nature being red in tooth and claw. I could never resolve the idea that god made the animals originally as all herbivores. Lions can't digest cellulose...cows can. Lions are perfect killing machines...created by a loving god. It's simple really, yet for years I always pushed it to the back of my mind.

Sorry if I've annoyed anybody with a faith here, but Nickolas makes some good points. The contradictions are glaring. As he says, they are TRUTH.

jay88

Nickolas -Again, we are discussing The Truth as represented by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. If we're all agreeing that it's bunk, then let's examine why it is bunk.

What does anyone think of Gen 3:15?

From what I have read the Jews consider it literal, while the JW's among other supposed "Christian" groups consider that verse to be the first prophecy.

Did Jesus refer to this verse in the bible?

Yes, but did the Jews understand it to be that way you just explained?

Nickolas

Yes, but did the Jews understand it to be that way you just explained?

Yes, it is the basis of waiting for the messia. I'm not following the relevance within the present context, however.

jay88

It ties in well to what the call "the truth".

"Are you In the Truth?"

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