"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  tec

  The New Testament is solidly founded on the proposition that Jesus of Nazareth is the messiah by virtue of his direct line of descent from Adam and Eve.

  I don't think so. Not at all. God said that He would raise up for Israel one from among them... so Adam and Eve can be a symbolic or literal story without affecting the Messiah. If Adam and Eve are literal people, then we're all descendants of them anyway. But even then, sometimes 'seed' is literal offspring, and sometimes 'seed' is spiritual offspring. (meaning of the same spirit)

  Tammy
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  Vanderhoven7

  LOL. Yes, sometimes metaphorical interpretation is justified...and sometimes it is not. The WTS majors in Apocalyptic literature. Being "in the truth" is entirely founded on accepting their interpretations derived from this genre. (i.e. Matthew 24, Rev.7)
• 

  PSacramento

  I think you may detect the contradiction between those two statements, PSacramento. If the genealogies were retained in the Christian writings because they lent credibility to the messianic claim of Jesus of Nazareth from the Hebrew perspective then it does not follow that the Hebrew perspective would be later downplayed. It sounds too much like sucking people into listenting to The Truth by starting with a lie.

  It was downplayed later when the Gospel was preached to the gentiles, to whom the whole "Jewish Messiah" thing was irrelevant.

  Here's the upshot. Ready? Fundamentalist Christian groups, and I will include the Watchtower as much as they would object, look down upon what they call cafeteria Christians precisely for this reason. Christianity is based 100% (one hundred percent) on the Bible, there is no other source. But people who consider themselves non-fundamentalist Christians will accept less than 100% of the Bible as fact. Rejection of the Adam and Eve story verbatim when it has been presented as fact together with the genealogy of Jesus of Nazareth, also presented as fact, is rationalisation of one's faith, picking and choosing between what is credible to him and what is not.

  Fact is, nowhere does the bibel state that in of itself, in 100% totality, is it to be seen as inerrant and the word of God, on the contrary, we are told in the bibel to test everything and told that the scribes did indeed alter the word of God.

  I agree, the Genesis story is not credible. It crumbles under the weight of massive contradictory evidence. But I also agree that the very basic tenets of Christianity fall apart without it, and it is for this reason I am not a Christian.

  Genesis is the creation of the world in "baby talk" for ancient man, it is not science nor is it an explanation of the process by whcih God created the universe, it is a combination of stories ( probably two) that were passed on via oral tradition by ancient man and compared to tohers storis of creation, not a bad one at all and far closer to the "reality" of it then many other stories of creation.

  I don't see how the basic tenets of Christianity fall apart with it or without it.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  <<I agree, the Genesis story is not credible. It crumbles under the weight of massive contradictory evidence. But I also agree that the very basic tenets of Christianity fall apart without it, and it is for this reason I am not a Christian.>>

  Just to be accurate, this is not why you are not a Christian (in the biblical, rather than cultural sense at least). Even if you accepted the entirety of scripture as being true...you may still not see your spiritual poverty for what it is.
• 

  rocketman

  Here's The Truth, as far as I'm concerned:

  I go where the evidence takes me. Sometimes, it takes me to some uncomfortable places. But I have to face that and adjust my thinking accordingly.
• 

  Nickolas

  you may still not see your spiritual poverty for what it is.

  I am not spiritually poor, I am spiritually empty. I am, however, intellectually emancipated, and there is a very great deal of peace and joy in that.

  I don't see how the basic tenets of Christianity fall apart with it or without it.

  And that, my dear PSacramento (and Tammy) is precisely the point. You don't see because you cannot see. Fundamentalist Christians do see, and that is why they have to swallow their incredulity over clearly unbelievable accounts in the Bible and accept them as literal truth.
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  Nickolas

  If Adam and Eve are literal people, then we're all descendants of them anyway.

  This is the point I was hoping Jay88 would pick up on yesterday. He got the significance, but he didn't follow through with the explanation.

  "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, and you shall bruise Him on the heel." (Genesis 3:15).

  The genealogy is critically important, because it establishes the seed of the messiah.
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  tec

  Fundamentalist Christians do see, and that is why they have to swallow their incredulity over clearly unbelievable accounts in the Bible and accept them as literal truth.

  Fundamental Christians see the bible, which self-admittedly contains errors and says NOWHERE that faith in the bible is the same as faith in the Son. The Spirit is what matters, and even the bible says to put faith in the Spirit, not in the flesh (written word).

  Tammy
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  Nickolas

  Fact is, nowhere does the bibel state that in of itself, in 100% totality

  See 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"

  It says, ALL, not some.
• 

  Nickolas

  Fundamental Christians see the bible, which self-admittedly contains errors and says NOWHERE that faith in the bible is the same as faith in the Son. The Spirit is what matters, and even the bible says to put faith in the Spirit, not in the flesh (written word).

  but, Tammy, think about this. How can the Bible be the sole source of Christian information, the sole inspiration of modern Christian faith and the sole means of carrying Christianity through the ages and not be equated to faith itself? And where is the written word equated to the flesh? That's a bit of a flyer, m'lady.