If you CHANGE what you said was TRUE...How could it have been true??

by Terry 22 Replies latest jw friends

Terry
IF the Bible says anything; it says what it says.
What is said doesn't change because nobody is continuing to write it.
The Bible cannot change, then.
God's Word (if that is what the Bible is) doesn't change.However, if any person or group INTERPRETS the Bible's doctrines and the doctrines CHANGE, then,it must be the INTERPRETER who is in error.
(I call it "error" because; why change it otherwise?)
Who would have enough hubris to risk representing God's word one way---and declare it TRUTH--only to CHANGE that TRUTH into something else?
Answer: The Watchtower Society!
To be Jehovah's Witness you must testify. When your testimony does not match reality or a predicted outcome WHO GETS THE BLAME but Jehovah?
Watch Tower literature recognizes that doctrinal changes have taken place though it states: "Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized." (Reasoning from the Scriptures, page 136-137)
Here is a brief and incomplete list to think over:
"Changes in viewpoint that took place up to 1939:
- 1921 - Vaccines banned.
- 1927 - "Faithful and Discreet Slave" is identified as a group of Christians and not an individual
- 1927 - Celebration of Christmas and birthdays banned
- 1928 - Great pyramid of Giza has nothing to do with God's purpose
- 1929 - "Superior authorities" of Romans 13:1 identified as Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
- 1930
  All of Russell's dates were changed, the majority to commence in, rather than be completed by 1914
  Moved beginnning of Christ's Second Coming from 1874 to 1914
  Moved Christ's enthronement as King from 1878 to 1914
  Moved the beginning of the resurrection of the "Bride of Christ" from 1878 to 1918
  Moved start of last days from 1799 to 1914
  Moved Armageddon from 1914 to within a generation, with the understanding of generation changing several times
- 1931 - Adoption of the name 'Jehovah's Witnesses'
- 1932 - Application of restoration prophecies to Christian congregation, rather than to the literal Jews
- 1935 - Identity of "great crowd" of Revelation 7
- 1936 - Use of the cross as a religious symbol banned
- 1938 - Communion bread and wine identified as symbols of the body and blood of the 144,000
- 1939 - Complete neutrality in worldly affairs
Significant Changes in Doctrine 1940—2000:
- 1944 - Disfellowshipping (although this had already been practised in some form earlier)
- 1945 - Blood transfusion forbidden (clarification of existing stance on blood and specific application to transfusions)
- 1952 - Vaccines allowed. It was clarified that the Witnesses' position on blood does not apply to vaccination (some Witnesses were already accepting vaccinations at least as early as World War II) (Watchtower 15 December 1952)
- 1954 - Jesus no longer to be worshiped (though the Watch Tower legal charter still states that the organisation exists to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus)
- 1956 - Communion bread and wine identified as symbols of Christ's body and blood (return to pre-1938 position)
- 1962 - "Superior authorities" of Romans 13:1 identified as earthly governments (Watchtower 15 November 1962)
- 1967 - Organ transplants classed as "cannibalism" (Watchtower 15 November 1967)
- 1973 - Tobacco use viewed as incompatible with membership (it had been strongly discouraged throughout the prior history of the organization) (Watchtower 1 June 1973)
- 1980 - Organ transplants acceptable
- 1995 - Meaning of the term "this generation" referred to at Matthew 24:34 restored to a class of people displaying certain characteristics. (Matthew 17:17) (Watchtower 1 November 1995)
- 1995 - Time of fulfillment of Jesus' parable of the sheep and the goats (Watchtower 1 February 1995)
- 2000 - Fractions derived from blood are deemed permissable and left up to conscience of individual Witness
james_woods

That is just too easy, Terry. You simply deny you were ever a prophet, and say that Jehovah told you to change your mind because of new light.
factfinder

I've mentioned this many times to my brother. If something is true-it is true. It does not change and become false. Every teaching WT comes out with is said to be the truth from the mouth of Jehovah. Then they get "new light" and ta-dah! the truth is changed into something different, even the opposite. Oh but that does not mean what was taught before is not true. It was the truth too! But it was the truth THEN. Now we have the CURRENT truth. Everything the WT says is the truth. There is "OLD truth" and 'NEW Truth". This makes me mad. I told my brother that what we were taught in the TRUTH book was said to be the TRUTH! But now the truth book is wrong and you can no longer teach with it. So over 107 million people who have the truth book have been lied to by what is in it? No! It's the truth for back then! Now we have the new truth-we must stay current with the truth as Jehovah's chariot is always on the move! It does not bother him at all but I keep wondering why I accepted and believed such crap.
You are so right Terry! But it makes no difference to the witnesses. If the w & g said the earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese most witnesses would automatically accept it! after all, the science books were written by worldly people influenced and controlled by satan! The wt is from Jehovah's spirit! My brother would be the first one out there door to door with the w &g proclaiming these new truths! Isn't it incredible?
I quit!

To a Jehovah's Witness truth is whatever their god the Watchtower Society tell them it is. If the Watchtower changes one of their beliefs, even a major one like the 1914 generation not passing away which was foundational Witnesses ignore the reality of what has just happened and wholely embrace the new truth.
I know Witnesses refer to the Watchtower's past teaching as "old light" but do they ever refer to them as former truths? It is very strange how they can have example after example pointed out to them where the Watchtower has been wrong and yet have full confidence in what they are presently being taught. I guess it is all part of having your brain thoroughly washed.
GrandmaJones

Great post Terry and so well organized that the timeline is quite easy to see. It would be helpful if when we posted timelines, we always included the publication and year of the change. I liked that you put in some of the dates of the Watchtowers. Thanks
S EIGHT

The title of this thread alone is excellent and will be added to my arsenal.
S8
ProdigalSon

Terry, you're on a roll!
Dismantling the Watchtower brick by brick.....with irrefutable logic!
Terry

To a Jehovah's Witness truth is whatever their god the Watchtower Society tell them it is.
If your Math teacher tells you 2+2=4 and you agree to teach others that "truth" it would never occur that suddenly, one day, a new insight arises
in which 2+2=41.
If you reported such a thing you would be lying.
But, let's look at another scenario, shall we?
If you CLAIM your invisible math teacher told you 2+2=41 and later change that claim to 14 followed by 7 followed by 5 you may be getting closer to reality---BUT---the actual data has always been WRONG!
The conclusion is that TRUTH must match one on one with reality. Anything more or less or different is a red flag----a signal that there is distortion, corruption or lying going on!
IF JW's are going to assert that BEFORE 1914 they were making guesses about things they cannot turn around and make the same claim AFTER they've got invisible Jesus on the throne channeling "TRUTH" to the publishers of the Watchtower.
Why?
IT WOULD MAKE JESUS/JEHOVAH the SOURCE of distortion, corruption or lies.
Since they call themselves JEHOVAH'S witnesses you can only blame JEHOVAH for corrupt information REQUIRING adjustment after adjustment.
AGuest

This was one of the main conundrums I faced in the Borg, dear Terry (peace to you!), particularly as such relates to the "anointed." On the one hand, "the Bible" says "anyone" may eat of the bread from heaven. The WTBTS pretends to support this statement by saying that "no one can say who is or who isn't". Yet, by their actions toward and treatment of ones who make such a claim, they very much say.
And that is just one thing. On many occasions I would ask, "But, Brother, in 19___ 'we' said thus and so, and called it 'truth'. Now, 'we're' saying such and so, and saying that IT is 'truth'. If 'red' is true, and 'blue' isn't, how can 'blue' now be true?? Either 'red' was true and 'blue' false... or, if 'blue' is now true, 'red' was false. But both can't be true. How can that BE with the Holy Spirit?"
Of course, I either got the "new light/perfect organization/imperfect men" spiel... or nothing at all (save some gnashing of teeth - "Get her OUT of here!" LOLOLOLOLOL!).
Ah, well... what should we expect from a false prophet... and it's little hench-y prophet-ites?
Peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
pirata

"Truth". A "loaded-language" synonym for "Theory".
A good scientist builds his theory on all the known facts at the time. He adapts/trashes/changes his theories as new facts come to light.
Most religious "Truths" are built on facts that confirm what a person or group has established that they will believe, to the exclusion of opposing facts. Part of the problem lies in that many of the "facts" are in fact unprovable assumptions. Sometimes the evidence is so strong to show that the "truth" is not true, that the "truth" must change.
The difference between a "truth" and "theory" is that you can question a theory and improve on the theory, but you cannot question a "truth" without the threat of disfellowshipping/shunning (unless you recant your position). By calling the "theory" a "truth", you instill raise the barrier for questions, ie "why are you challenging what is known to be true?" Ironically, the leaders are allowed to change the "truth" at any time because they define what the "truth" is.

If you CHANGE what you said was TRUE...How could it have been true??

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