Strange, Offensive , Weird Statements on DFing Offenses in Elders Manual

by flipper 64 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper
    flipper

    You really can't make this stuff up. None of US would. But an organization like the WT society bent on controlling virtually EVERY aspect of the typical Jehovah's Witness life - WOULD make this up to keep their control through the use of fear and guilt. So- I thought I'd share what I thought was the strangest, most offensive, weird language dealing with what the WT society calls " disfellowshipping offenses " . I will use the point number from the elders manual in identifying these WT comments on DFing offenses.

    4. Attempted suicide may be the result of deep despair or major depression . Deal carefully and compassionately with such a person. In MOST cases a judicial hearing is NOT required. ( Do you think ? ) Most cases ? Indicating there MAY be a JC for a attempted suicide case ? Please.

    5. Porneia - Willing participation incurs guilt and requires judicial action. It is not a casual touching of the sex organs but involves the manipulation of the genitals. Porneia DOES NOT require skin-to-skin contact, copulation ( as in penetration ), or sexual climax. ( O.K. Time out here. How can you have your GENITALS MANIPULATED without skin-to-skin contact ? It's the best way to have your genitals manipulated ! Does the WT society need a sex education course ? And why are they so concerned about sexual climax resulting in sin ? ) Too bizarre.

    7. One who was raped would NOT be guilty of porneia . ( no duh . Do they even have to SAY that to elders ? ) Discernment is needed in considering claims of rape, taking into consideration such factors as the MENTAL DISPOSITION of the person, the CIRCUMSTANCES that led up to the incident, and ANY DELAY in reporting. ( Translation : Elders - A woman claiming rape may be mentally unbalanced , circumstances may have indicated she was somewhat at fault in circumstances bringing it on, and if she delayed reporting it , she wanted it and it really wasn't rape. ) How much more offensive could the WT society BE to JW women by this twisted reasoning ?

    11. Evidence testified to by at least two witnesses that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex or in the same house with a known homosexual under improper circumstances. ( Million $$$ question - How the hell do you define " improper circumstances " ? So many variables and various circumstances that NOBODY could judge anybody unless these 2 witnesses were in bed sleeping with these alleged sinners ! ) Give me a break.

    14. Extreme physical uncleanness. Really ? ( WT society would DF a person for not bathing enough ? Or keeping their yard clean ? What if they can't afford soap ? )

    19. Gluttony - A glutton routinely shows a lack of restraint , even gorging himself on food to the point of feeling very uncomfortable or becoming sick. Gluttony is determined, not by someone's size, but by his attitude toward food. ( Is this the winner of DUMB statement of the YEAR award ? Would this require 2 witnesses you think ? LOL ! What if a person is a " secret glutton " ? They love eating a lot in private ? Will fellow witnesses stakeout their house ALL nIGHT to see if they are throwing out Pizza boxes the next morning ? It's just ridiculous. )

    So - I suppose you all get my point here I'm trying to make. When you have a high control group like the WT society dictating EVERY ACTION that JW's take then essentially you have a dictatorship. I feel this is harming detrimentally ALL Jehovah's Winesses where they can't or are NOT allowed to make ANY decisions without it being approved by the WT society first. And that my friends is a VERY dangerous case of cult mind control. As always I welcome any and all thoughts you have on this. Peace out to all of you, Mr. Flipper

  • twinkle toes
    twinkle toes

    Topic 11 makes me think of this:

    Back when I was dating my now husband. Elders were always staked out at his house trying to catch me. When I eventually had an elders meeting , they said they never seen me go in or come out of the house but they heard a womens voice and so they knew I was inside. When I did not confess but instead was upset that maybe my boyfriend had another girl inside they looked so shocked . They hadn't thought of any other possible scenario, my innocence was not fathomable.

    I of course knew he wasn't cheating, I could not explain the voice in the house. They had it written down like it was an actual crime that had taken place and I was accountable for my whereabouts. I was surprised how sure of my guilt they were. They wanted to catch me soooo bad. It was so exciting for them to play cops and robbers, lording thier special book of rules over people. It was so dissapointing for them. They were genuinely upset that they could not Df me.

    It is disgusting.

    That was it for me. OUT

    tt

  • DanaBug
    DanaBug

    Twinkle, did your husband own a tv at the time?

  • twinkle toes
    twinkle toes

    I did bring that up. I even suggested it could have been me on the answering machine. They had nothing! They hadn't even checked my home. Or called my house. They were bad detectives.

    tt

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    flipper,

    Not trying to hijack your thread, but I've always wondered about the point you cited below. Being the the decent-enough Bible student that I am, this is what I question from the Elders Manual:

    : 5. Porneia

    Where in the Bible does it say that playing with titties is such a horrible thing? I need references.

    My questions are simple. Forget "porneia." that is a Greek word that Freddie Franz seized upon and used it to sanction against anything he didn't like, or that he might have liked, but didn't want anyone else to do except himself. Or maybe he couldn't bring himself to do it, so he didn't want anyone else to do it, either. Either way, it is evidence that Freddie was a sick jerk who got his own rocks off by manipulating millions with his wacky ideas. Note for alert readers: NOTHING that Freddie Franz ever wrote in his over 70 years at Brooklyn is in print now.

    I'm still waiting for someone to show me with concrete proof where in the Bible it is FORBIDDEN to engage in normal sex when one is not married.

    The Joseph and Mary story is not good enough because there is not any Biblical support for them breaking any rules in the old law covenant, as far as I can tell. Maybe they broke the rules of some Pharisees, but I'm not sure they broke any Bible rules.

    The whole issue revolves around the meanings of "fornication" and "adultery" and I have read a lot about the original words and their meanings. They are more vague than the mighty Watchtower Corporation would have its little worker bees think.

    Any thoughts, Mr. Flipper?

    Farkel, Thread Hijack CLASS

  • agonus
    agonus

    "We do not go beyond the things written... by ourselves..."

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    My name is Sabastious, and I am a glutton.

    -Sab

  • twinkle toes
    twinkle toes

    Dear farkel

    I do not support this hijack, however I will say you are right on the titties thing. I believe the bible supports it. I give the following scripture as proof.

    (Song of Solomon 1:13,14) 13 As a bag of myrrh my dear one is to me; between my breasts he will spend the night. 14 As a cluster of henna my dear one is to me, among the vineyards of En-ge′di."

    The next scripture I am putting in here not because it supports my thought, but, because it makes me giggle.

    (Song of Solomon 8:1-3) . . ."O that you were like a brother of mine, sucking the breasts of my mother! Should I find you outside, I would kiss you. People would not even despise me. 2 I would lead you, I would bring you into the house of my mother, who used to teach me. I would give you a drink of spiced wine, the fresh juice of pomegranates. 3 His left hand would be under my head; and his right hand-it would embrace me.

    tt

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Stop this talk or we may be forced to form a committee!

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Brother Flip,

    You would not feel this way if your individuality was absorbed by the Body of Landru.

    Become one with the body.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuLBzWTeK6I

    Yes, that is Fred Franz appearing in one of his rare performances as "Landru."

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