A FOUR LETTER WORD FOR DEBATOR (page 5)

Mad Dawg

Thing is, while JW's crow about their "unity", they fail to understand the difference between unity and conformity.

Found Sheep

don't like that my avitar looks like yours don't know how to change it?

Found Sheep

don't like that my avitar looks like yours don't know how to change it?

Mad Dawg

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/forum/tech-support/202049/1/Profile

This will tell you how it is done.

TD

Debator,

CoC is all about showing the personal opinion the fallibility of human interactions in parts of our organisation we never really had contact with as a whole.

Crises of Conscience is about one man's inner struggle as he came to grips with the fact that the religious organization he was affliated with was making decisions affecting the lives and health of other people that properly belonged to God and God alone.

What were people expecting? infallibility?

Of course not Reniaa. People don't have a right to expect perfection from imperfect people, but they do have a right to expect moral integrity from the leaders of Christian religions. --Perhaps not all the time, but certainly as the dominant pattern.

We have never claimed perfection or infallibility. So why be stumbled by a book that shows our inate human fallibility in all parts of our organisation?

The leaders of the JW faith have made bold claims concerning the fulfillment of "Bible prophecies" and they have presented these claims as "The Truth" without equivocation --Not as mere human speculation, but the result of the active direction of Jehovah's holy spirit revealing these things at the "Proper time."

One by one, these teachings are proving to be false.

Now, either the leaders and policy makers of the JW faith were truthfully and sincerely mistaken in believing that Jehovah God actively directed the promulgation of teachings that in retrospect, have proven to be incorrect. OR they knew from the beginning that these teachings were simply human speculation and the accompanying claims of spirit direction were dishonestly used to add validity to said human speculation.

A religious organization that has made sincere mistakes in attributing spirit direction to doctrines that have proven to be false has no business asking that those mistakes be overlooked when it comes to the acceptance of further end-tiimes speculation. Conversely, a religious organization that simply claimed spirit direction in the knowledge that it was lacking has no business demanding trust in any form.

In both scenarios, the JW parent organization by it's own conduct repudiates, the defense of "Human imperfection" that you have offered and in so doing demonstrates a lack of basic moral integrity.

I plead nothing that we haven't always said!

"Special pleading" is a logical fallacy where the standards of evaluation are not applied with the same severity to both sides of the argument.

Is it fair to judge religious leaders and the religions they represent by their fruits? (Matthew 7:15-20) The Watchtower has consistently asserted that it is. If that is in fact true, then every official act of a religion and it's leaders becomes fair game.

Should a Mormon be concerned that Joseph Smith once claimed that tall people who resembled Quakers inhabited the moon? Or should we write this peculiar view off simply to imperfection? In almost any other situation we could, but statements made under the auspices of a self-proclaimed special relationship with God would obviously affect the plausibility of that claim and therefore cannot be dismissed.

When the words and deeds of religious leaders spoken under the mantle of their claimed authority are disqualified as evidence of the veracity of said claimed authority on the basis of "imperfection" then the entire discussion is reduced to the purely subjective question of how much imperfection each person is willing to tolerate from their religion and why.

And that, dear Reniaa is the fallacy of special pleading. You are asking that your religion be judged with a standard so lenient that it would be impossible to distinguish between them and any other religion when the JW faith does not accord other religions this leniency as you well know. If you can write off the faux pas of your leaders to imperfection, than why couldn't a Mormon legitimately do the same thing?

MrFreeze

How can the GB be inspired by God to write things, yet write incorrect things? The Bible writers were imperfect, how many errors will you admit they have made? None. Why? Because they were inspired by God. See the distinction? If the GB isn't inspired by God, why should we follow them?

Someone made the analogy to me today because I disproved the 607 teaching "Don't throw away the car because you have a flat tire". Only thing is, with the 607 doctrine being false, you're tire has exploded while you are on the highway and you have swerved into oncoming traffic.

jookbeard

"they refer everything to the Bible"

Err no they dont, when they met in secret Governing Body sessions that sealed the fate of the own brethren in Malawi which included inflicting the most unspeakable hardships on them did they refer to the Bible? Like fuck did they.

When the secretly joined with The UN the Wild Beast of Revelation did the refer to the Bible? Bollox did they.

When they covered over the homosexuality of 2 of their very own GB members who were sodomizing and abusing in the very House of Jeehovah and then secretly placed these 2 sodomites in the UK Bethel to carry on their filthy perverted lust did they refer to the Bible?

Did they refer to the Bible to reinforce the 2 witness rule that sees thousands of baby rapists continue to serve in "good standing" and be able to bang on doors in neighbourhoods world wide whilst carrying on their sickening abuses?

GLTirebiter

God's people are not marked by their lack of mistakes but their reliance on Jehovah and his word to be refined and be corrected from them

The Bible tells us what marks identify upright people pleasing to God. They give drink to the weary, bread to the hungry. They clothe the naked. They welcome the stranger. They visit the sick. They will do this for anyone in need, not just for their own. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me".

Bringing good news to the world isn't done solely, or even mainly, a matter of the words you say and the text you print. The example of your own life is the most important evangelization. "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

This point is not unique to Judeo-Christian teachings: " You must be the change you wish to see in the world " [Ghandi].

"Go thou and do likewise."

Lady Lee

It doesn't bother me that they make mistakes. They are human after all.

What bothers me is the following

The demand that every single JW accept, believe and teach these ideas to other people
No JW is allowed to question these constantly changing beliefs. Whatever today's "truth" is quickly becomes tomorrow's "old light"
JWs who refuse to accept every word published or uttered by the WTS/GB can be expelled for apostasy even if they have not talked to other JWs about the disagreement
The WTS/GB refuses to come right out and say they were wrong, prefering to lay the blame on God for not giving the proper light in the first place

That is what bothers me about it

More 4-letter words

crap
lies
fake
sick

Can I throw in a few 5 letter words?

fraud
toxic
abuse

jam

Debator or reniaa; come out where ever you are, we are waiting..Is it ok

to lie? We are not talking about small lies but whoppers. Can you please

show us in the Bible where this is OK. I have ask this before of you, and

Iam still waiting for you to show me that scripture. Hell, I might return to JW,s

fantasy land If you can show me. You will help me to understand that the Bible

is not book of truth, sometimes it lies.

A FOUR LETTER WORD FOR DEBATOR

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