We all die, so why bother with Jehovah if the worst is annihilation? (page 4)

Big Tex

Fear of death is not long term incentive.

When I left, I actually remember thinking I'd rather die than stay with those people, in that cult, living that kind of life.

So sorry....I started studying non-JW religions 4 months ago. They're still living with their God, not just being ruled over and seperate like JW's teach. I'm aware that Rev says heaven and then earth, so I should have made clear I was referring to the paradise earth JW's teach. Kind of thought that was implied since I refered to Tammy's post directly above me. And ftr, I don't claim any religion at all.

You know every post I see from you is pointing out how someone's wrong or the NT is anti-semitic, what's up with that?

designs

Dana- it is simply addressing historical and religious misrepresentations. Since we have Fundamentalists and JWs here touting Jesus and the NT as the source for that conviction it might be of use to some who are questioning that premise to see the actual errors and ommissions contained in the NT.

One of the things we xJWs continually ask is how did we get sucked in to a religious system that now we can see as so odd and dangerous in so many ways- well let's look at the source material. Like I asked Michelle about reading the Watchtower publications and noticing the misquotes and misrepresentations and how did it make her feel. Most of us are pretty angry about that. Well it is the same in reading the NT with eyes wide open and the blinders finally off.

tec

Most 'Christians' don't know what is taught at the Seminaries of their own particular Denomination ala the comment from Dana.

But she didn't even claim a denomination, Designs... (and some of us don't have one)... so how can you tell her to study and learn what her damn religion's teachings are, when you already know that some teach we go to heaven and God , and some teach God comes to live with us on earth?

Just seemed a bit snippy and rude from you... as if it didn't matter what/who you were denouncing, as long as it belonged to Christianity.

Tammy

dgp

I won't turn this into a table tennis contest between Perry and me. I do believe, however, that I should mention something, just to make it clear that I did notice.

Some posts above, I wrote this:

Yes, that's what I'm saying. A good God would simply forgive.

Is this what you really believe

Mm... HELL, YEAH! This is what I believe.

I think it's pretty obvious that I'm answering "Hell, yeah" to "A good God would simply forgive". Mr. Perry didn't understand things that way, however. According to him,

Is this what you really believe or is this your solution to the problem of sin and evil? If someone swindled you out of your life savings , say like that recent Madoff character, would you just want a judge to simply forgive him?

dgb answers:

Mm... HELL, YEAH! This is what I believe.

So the answer for many unbelievers is yes, judgment is OK as long as it's not them being judged. And the tradegy is that at some point a person doesn't see the abomination it this hypocrisy. And it is utterly hypocritical.

Perry does not seem to be a very good example of intellectual honesty. He misquotes me - and calls me a hypocrite - only a few posts below mine. Wow! Not only did I not give that answer; "other unbelievers" didn't make such a statement, either, but he's making a blanket statement on behalf of "many unbelievers".

And then, Perry didn't get the point:

The idea I -as opposed to "many unbelievers" - manifested above is NO, JUDGMENT IS NOT OK. "A GOOD GOD WOULD SIMPLY FORGIVE".

Is it clear now, Mr. Perry?

Now, as to a post above by Tec,

The religious mind cannot possibly comprehend the notion that one person might actually want to cease to exist. Accepting that as a valid option would mean that all their toilings can be considered nonsense. This is one question they are not ready to answer, whatever the persuasion.

I can comprehend it. I think most people want more time than what they have, but I can comprehend that some people just want to become nothing at some point.

No more exhaustion, no more fear, no more worry...

I can also understand some accepting their death and subsequent nothingness, because they've lived a full and happy and satisfying life... but I don't know that those people would be celebrating their death and nothingness. I can also understand those who are afraid of judgment and condemnation, who would happily take nothing in their place.

Good points you make here. I just would like you to notice that a true atheist is not afraid of judgment, and is not trading nothing for condemnation. A good atheist believes there is no judgment and no condemnation; therefore, there's no such thing as taking nothing instead of condemnation. We just die, and become nothing, and there is nothing we can do about it. We believe that many a religious person is unable to face that hard, terrible truth, and therefore either come up with ways to avoid facing the truth (as the Governing Body does) or follows what someone else has told them.

I can understand this feeling for some believers. Those who honestly believe. I can also understand that if a lady lost her child, say, I wouldn't be exactly a good person if I told her that her child isn't coming back. The promise of "Paradise Earth" is a lot more comforting. But, some of us can't accept such promises as good.

As a side note, as someone noticed, I believe that giving up the Catholic faith is, in this sense, way harder than giving up the Watchtower. The Bad W promises you annihilation, while the Catholics say you'll suffer forever.

InterestedOne

The idea of judgement/justice is interesting. On one hand, it seems like people are getting off scot-free if they just cease to exist. On the other hand, I don't see why someone who lives an average life, does some things wrong & some things right, would deserve an eternal punishment of conscious suffering. That seems like an unfair punishment.

agonus

You know, if you're afraid to die, then just don't do it. Nobody's pressuring you, you know...

tec

I just would like you to notice that a true atheist is not afraid of judgment, and is not trading nothing for condemnation.

Of course.

Tammy

InterestedOne

You know, if you're afraid to die, then just don't do it. Nobody's pressuring you, you know...

I'm confused by the above. Can you explain?

DanaBug

Designs, you have a pm :)

We all die, so why bother with Jehovah if the worst is annihilation?

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