Congresswoman Shot in Tucson

by leavingwt 442 Replies latest social current

• 

  tenyearsafter

  Justitia Themis,

  I am not trying to be obtuse...and I am not agreeing with The Palin tactic...what I am saying is that to say Ms. Palin or the "Right" are responsible for this is stretching credibility. What was done is inexcusable, and I wish the Congresswoman and other victims of this idiot my sympathy and best wishes for recovery.

  I don't agree with your examples of Menachem Begin (I don't believe he was assasinated...you are probably thinking of Rabin) or Bhutto (her own rhetoric drew the ire of the radical Islamist who killed her).

  Nonetheless, polarizing speech is never useful in trying to bring people together or "preach" a particular viewpoint. This should be a no-brainer for those of us who lived and participated in the "rhetoric" of the WTS to grasp!
• 

  BizzyBee

  to say Ms. Palin or the "Right" are responsible for this is stretching credibility.

  I don't think anyone has said that.

  But, as pointed out by the sheriff in charge of this investigation, it is the culture and climate of violent rhetoric and imagery that contributes to the unhinging and inciting of those already on the edge of madness. It should stop. NOW.

  Personally, I would not want to be living with the conscience and karma of a Sarah Palin or a Glen Beck tonight.
• 

  JeffT

  It should stop. NOW.

  Just out of curiosity, have you complained about some of the stuff said by, say, Kathy Griffin? There is plenty of crap on all sides of the fence. I won't listen to any of them (Glen Beck and Hannity included) for exactly that reason.

  Edited to add, this loon also lists the Communist manifesto and Mein Kampf among his favorite books. Perhaps we should add both Marx and Hitler to the list.
• 

  beksbks

  Just out of curiosity, have you complained about some of the stuff said by, say, Kathy Griffin? There is plenty of crap on all sides of the fence. I won't listen to any of them (Glen Beck and Hannity included) for exactly that reason.

  Ohh is Kathy Griffin a politician? or a "news" personality? Is she claiming to feed you "fair and balanced" information on your real world? You are reaching in a very partisan fashion here. (I have no idea what Kathy Griffin says by the way). Kathy Griffin is a supposed comedienne and entertainer last I saw.

  Edited to add, this loon also lists the Communist manifesto and Mein Kampf among his favorite books. Perhaps we should add both Marx and Hitler to the list.

  Sure, add them.
• 

  beksbks

  Personally, I would not want to be living with the conscience and karma of a Sarah Palin or a Glen Beck tonight

  Well you would have to have a conscience to have to live with it. These opportunistic money grubbers obviously don't.
• 

  sammielee24

  I'm not saying that putting a bullseye on Arizona Democrat Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' congressional race - as Sarah Palin did - was an explicit or intentional invitation to violence. Nor am I saying that the "Get on Target for Victory" events held by the guy Giffords beat - "Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly" - was the reason her assassin went after her. This tragedy is still unfolding, and the questions of motive and incitement will be argued about for a long time to come.

  But I am saying that the "lock and load"/"take up your arms" rhetoric of American politics isn't just an overheated metaphor. For years, the language of sports has dominated political journalism, and discourse about hardball and the horserace and the rest of the macho athletic lexicon has been a factor in the trivialization of our public sphere. This has helped dumb down democracy, making a serious national discussion about anything important too wonky for words.

  The "second amendment solution," though, does something worse than make politics a branch of entertainment. It makes it a blood sport. I know politics ain't beanbag. But words have consequences, rhetoric shapes reality, and much as we like to believe that we are creatures of reason, there is something about our species' limbic system and lizard brainstems that makes us susceptible to irrational fantasies.

  If you're worried that violent video games may make kids prone to bad behavior; if you think that misogynic and homophobic rap lyrics are dangerous to society; if you believe that a nipple in a Superbowl halftime show is a threat to our moral fabric - then surely you should also fear that the way public and media figures have framed political participation with shooting gallery imagery is just as potentially lethal.

  Follow Marty Kaplan on Twitter
• 

  BizzyBee

  have you complained about some of the stuff said by, say, Kathy Griffin?

  I am not, like you, familiar with Kathy Griffin's viewpoints - ??

  There is plenty of crap on all sides of the fence.

  True. But the violent crap is almost exclusively on the right side (of the two sides) of the fence.
• 

  beksbks

  If you're worried that violent video games may make kids prone to bad behavior; if you think that misogynic and homophobic rap lyrics are dangerous to society; if you believe that a nipple in a Superbowl halftime show is a threat to our moral fabric - then surely you should also fear that the way public and media figures have framed political participation with shooting gallery imagery is just as potentially lethal
• 

  Justitia Themis

  I am saying is that to say Ms. Palin or the "Right" are responsible for this is stretching credibility.

  Define "are responsible." You are perhaps correct in only the narrowest of intepretations of the word "responsibility." Are they directly responsible (assuming this does turn out to be politically motivated)? No.

  Could they be indirectly responsible? Yes. Could they have created an environment in which such an act might seem appropriate to someone with mental issues? Absolutely. So I do not agree that it is "stretching credibility" to place on them a modicum of blame.

  The is a question of duty. Do politicians who have a platform from which to disseminate information and incite the passions of their constituents have a responsibility to do so in a manner so as to not give the appearance of promoting violence? I say yes. On this element, Sarah Palin fails.

  I don't agree with your examples of Menachem Begin [Rabin]

  And you are correct, it was Rabin, not Begin. However, your opinion that Netanyahu's precipitating actions (in an attempt to get elected and starting months prior to the assassination) did not contribute to Rabin's assassination places you at odds with the vast majority of political scientists.

  Sound familiar?

  Likud Leader (and future Prime Minister) Benjamin Netanyahu accused Rabin’s government of being “removedfrom Jewish tradition ... and Jewish values.” Netanyahu addressed protesters of the Oslo movement at rallies where posters portrayed Rabin in a Nazi SS uniform or being the target by in the cross-hairs of a sniper. Rabin accused Netanyahu of provoking violence, a charge which Netanyahu strenously denied. [ 1 ]
• 

  JRK

  Palin is a t-waffle that thinks that her "crooshair" comments will not be run with by her horny, nut-job teabaggers? She just wants culpable deniability.

  JK