by LivingTheDream 42 Replies latest members private
I love your reasoning, I just never thought of it the way you did. It always brothered me that the ones who died this side of Armageddon would never marry and so many remained single to pioneer, etc with the hope of marriage in the new system but were playing the odds if they did not make it.
It all seemed very crazy but I did not know how to reason it through like you did. You truly do think out of the box. I love it. Thanks
LITS
I have never thought about it that way.
Hi again, LTD,
Them: [after some discussion] Well, there are estimates that we have had 8 to 10 billion people that have lived so far in history including the billions now. So, we guess billions in the resurrection, since most of these probably never had a chance to know God. So, maybe 5 to 6 billion people coming back or even more.
Me: OK, so you are saying maybe six thousand million, that is, 6 billion, will be resurrected?
I can't put my finger on it right now but I believe Russell or Rutherford put out estimates of some 20 to 30 billion. A good search in the WT Lib may produce WT current thinking.
Modern estimates place the number who've ever lived at much higher -- which makes your argument even more compelling. This from Wiki:
Estimates of "the total number of people who have ever lived" published in the first decade of the 21st century range approximately from 100 to 115 billion (1 E11).
An estimate of the total number of people who have ever lived was prepared by Carl Haub of the Population Reference Bureau in 1995 and subsequently updated in 2002; the updated figure was approximately 106 billion. [107] [108] Haub characterized this figure as an estimate that required "selecting population sizes for different points from antiquity to the present and applying assumed birth rates to each period". [108]
Len
LTD, as always, solid gold! I have had a very similar agruments on the floor where I worked in brooklyn, as you say, anything to pass the time... but you put it in such practcal terms, and made it real... I always liked Gangas too.. strait shooter, spoke his mind. the fact is, this thing is a cult. and all cults have to have feelings of exclusiveness to make them worthwile for people to join, and only JW's surviving the big A is part of that feeling. but to deny that people would be able to get married and have kids is just plain stupid. I also had may discussions with other bethelites about what happens when the earth is "full"... only so much room and people living forever and all...
Mankind will step one day into a New World of peace and tolerance and great technological advancement. And the first thing to be discarded and forgotten will be God himself.
FatFreak2005 - "That's thinking out of the box."
Sweet. Back in the day, I used to throw logic grenades like this all the time whenever one of the more idiotic and dogmatic JWs I knew shot off their mouths (those traits always seem to go together, don't they?); it was always great fun to take 'em down a notch and shut 'em up, and it always - always - happened in front of a group. I'd gained a rep as a bit of a shit-disturber, but the majority of the congregation always liked me, partly because of it (maybe it's a Canadian thing). In fact, one "sister" once remarked, "look out, boys; if your stoopid, Vidiot will let you know". One of my elementary school principles once told my Mom that I argued like a Philadelphia lawyer.
LivingTheDream - "I actually carried this story around with me all over Bethel later on to anybody who would listen and they mostly got annoyed with me and ignored me."
If you'd been there in more recent decades and said any of that, Old Man Jaracz and/or GB2.0 would have cashiered your sorry ass and set you packing before you could say "Faithful and Discreet Slave".
Before he passed, my Dad (who, while a devout JW, was an extremely reasonable guy; again, maybe it's a Canadian thing) would have totally agreed with George Gangas; he viewed that particular aspect of resurrection as more likely applying to reproduction; after all, in Biblical times, marriage was about procreation first and foremost; companionship came in a distant second place. He figured (correctly, IMO) that if billions were resurrected and were capable of having children, the planet would have a serious overpopulation problem in just a few short decades, but if resurrectees were sterile, that would neatly solve the problem. If they still wanted to be parents, there would be countless resurrected children needing loving families.
God, I miss him; in a weird way, though, I'm relieved that he died before having to see the WTS's inevitable decline and fragmentation/collapse; it would have completely broken him.
LTD, I think you think to much. Did anyone tell you that only gets you in trouble?
Based upon what you say, it sounds like there will be two human classes, those who have sex and those who can't. I see this the beginning of problems. Initially, those of the "can't have sex" class will far outnumber those who can. Unfortunately, at some point those who have sex and make babies will overtake the "can't" class.
Sounds like an ugly mix that will take eternity to resolve, which is exactly how long they have.
I find this post interesting, because I always interpreted that scripture to mean Jesus was talking about those resurrected to heaven, not to earth.
As a JW, I never totally bought the "no sex if you're resurrected" line. To me, it was speculation, even on the FDS class' behalf.
Oops, I gotta be careful where I click and how much.
Speaking of logic grenades, one of my favorites - used whenever one of the less intelligent JWs I knew blathered on about "inherited physical imperfection" and how far removed we were from Adam's created state - was this (like the best ones, always framed as a question):
"If we're becoming more and more "physically imperfect" with each successive generation, why are our children not uglier and stoopider than us?"
Crickets chirped.
Sometimes the JW in question would hum and haw something along the lines of: "Well, maybe Jehovah put some kind of 'imperfection limit' on our genes to keep us from getting worse and worse and eventually dying out", to which I would respond: "Ah-ah-ah, we're not supposed to speculate*, remember?"
I'd get a scowl from the victim, but he (it was almost always a he) couldn't do a damn thing about it except shut up, which always brought small smiles to the audience members who realized what I'd just done.
* To those of you not in the know, theological "speculation" was unofficially discouraged (those who did it always kept in on the down-low), which always seemed dumb to me, seeing as how I'd actually looked up the word in the dictionary, and thought that those who "discouraged" it were seriously misapplying the term (now I know why).
Another thing I had in common with my Dad.
