by IslandWoman 46 Replies latest jw friends
GDW,
I think you proved the point that IW, Prisca, and I were making. Our vantage point is different that yours because we were centrally involved and you were tangentialy involved, like Julie. As I said in my last post, you certainly can state you percept, which is different than ours. No one is denying you that right. I don't know why you think we are.
larc, you are totally right. i hang around you all everyday and the majority of what i read and spend time with on the net is JW related. i read and read and read ... yet i still don't understand exactly what you all have gone through cos i've never been a JW. all i can do is take what you guys tell me and compare it to something similar i have experienced ... but still i'll never KNOW the exact pain and anger all of you have experienced. i can and do have much sympathy for you all, but i cannot truly empathize.
there is a difference between the two you know .. i managed to write a 3 page essay on it for highschool. yes, i am a very strange kid
~*~ go away ... i'm alright ~*~
Mr Larc,
I understand the eagerness to "close the case"...but:
We can all express our opinions on a number of subjects. That is not what is being said here. We are saying that it is not possible to truely understand what it is like to go through something we haven't experienced.I see. So let me see if I understand this correctly. How many years does one have to be in the truth to "understand what it was like"? Ten? What about those that have been in for nine? They don't understand it?and
Julie has more understanding than most, because she hung around them for 18 months, but she never walked the walk, to coin a phrase.
Does someone who has been in for 30 years as opposed to someone who has been in for 35 years "not truly understand it"? Does a sister not truly understand what it was like to be an elder? Does an elder not understand what it was like to be a sister? There were afterall social consequences to all these "ranks" and "tenures". All persons had different levels of understanding - does one level rank higher than another? Should we find someone with 70 years in the truth and give them the "ultimate" say?
As many have seen I have not agreed with Julie on some of her views (in fact vehemently disagreed), but that does not give me the right to imply that she should "shut up" since she has not truly walked the walk does it? At the bottom of it all this is what this is all about.
So when has one "walked the walk"? Does it depend on whether one was baptised? Or is it time dependent? I need to know what my ranking is...
Respectfully,
GD
I seldom become offended.
I don't want someone in my life I can live with. I want someone in my life I can't live without.
Mr. Grave,
I think you are straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel. You know full well what I mean.
1. 9 vs. 10 years - do difference - much different than being a study.
2. sister vs. elder - no, I don't think she can fully understand him, and it is painfully obvious from what I have read on these boards, that he can not fully understand her.
3. baptized vs. unbabtized - big difference, and you know it as well as I do.
Larc,
Ok, so? I proved your point. However, THAT was not MY point.
MY point is that Julie has been told, in so many words, to "shut-up, be quiet, you don't know what you are talking about", etc" when she has expressed an opinion that was not accepted by a "born in, raised in, an adult in", JW. A sort of "coup de gras" in order to end a debate. I have been here, on this board, for six months, and I have seen it several times.
No one has ever attempted to deny me my rights. As if they could anyway . I'm just speaking up about a continuing "gag" some posters try to put on Julie because "she ain't one of us". Well, I am just raising my hand and saying, I'm an apostate wannabe too.
Andee
You can take a whore to water, but you can't make her think-Dorothy Parker
Gravedancer,
"Ranking" has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread.
My sister gave up a son to the blood issue, others bowed down to the Watchtower in other ways both small and large. Please, do not make this an issue that just involves yourself! We all have given more than we should have to an organization that is led by only men!
IW
GDW,
I, for one, never told her to shut up. I was addressing the premise that IW raised. I do, however, believe that Julie's perception of Amazing is different than mine because we do have a different vantage point regarding the culture and the role of the elder within that culture. I don't debate her because it would be pointless. We come from a different point of view.
IW,
So what is being discussed? Those who have lost the most have the right to express opinions?
I am just looking at the logic of the argument and seeing how flawed it is because there are so many exceptions...
For instance, it has been pointed out that if one was baptised then they understand and have more validiity as an X-JW than one who has not. It's so easy to find exceptions to this isn't it? How man kids grow up as JW's (losing a lot of their childhood due to the Jw teachings) but never get baptized? then consider someone who as an adult is baptised and disfellowshipped three years later? I would say the child understands more than the adult as to the horrors of being a JW, wouldn't you?
The point being is that if you guys want to draw the line as to who understands stuff and who doesn't is flat out wrong. Stereotyping/profiling in this manner doesn't work and every single individual understands more or less than some other individual. If Julie studied for 18 months I am pretty sure she understood things if she says she does.
This is censorship based on "seniority". Someone who has just been DF'ed this week...are they an X-JW or not? Or does one have to be an X-JW for a long time before one can be respected as such? What if they were inactive before being DFed? What if they had serious doubts and just acted things out for family reasons?
I guess since I am not DFed I have no right to speak as an X-JW? When applied in reverse - your logic dictates that this is the case, doesn't it?
GD
Mr. Grave,
Let me see if I can simplify this for you.
1. Everyone who posts here has different experiences.
2. Some have more deeply ingrained experiences than others, so they can offer information, examples, and case studies, that others can not.
3. Everyone has their own perspective based on their own, personal experience and has the right to express it.
4. There is no status hierarchy here. People have opinions based on their experience as a JW, one associated with a JW, or someone who just reads about the JWs. Not only that, people have opinions, facts, and information that is based on other life experiences which they can bring to the table for discussion.
5. People have biased ideas, based on their own unique background, and therefore should be receptive to input that is condradictory to their own particular experience.
