Hi There Julie!

by IslandWoman 46 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  gravedancer

  Mr Larc,

  Thanks for the summary. To your points:

  1. I was addressing IW's premis, which I agree with.

  What exactly is the premise? More importantly, what is the conclusion of such premise?

  2. I never, ever tryed to shut up Julie, nor will I argue with her on the subject of her perception of Amazing versus my opinion, because it is pointless. I think she is biased, and I am sure that she thinks I am.

  Oh, I did try and shut up all the insults and stuff. When things on here get into personality attacks I would gladly fight to protect others from such...I would still defend Amazing if I felt he was being personally attacked (yeah go ahead and say it...."Amazing can defend himself" - I know.)

  3. New material: whether you defend Amazing or Julie, is of no concern to me. Not because of you personally. I think the whole dialogue between the two of them is boring, and I don't keep track of who defends who. On a side note: I think that both of them are behaving like children.

  Oh I totally agree. But they are obviously two intelligent people who need sparring partners...maybe we should find a way to introduce them in real life;)

  Larc, I have been quite vocal on the whole point of personality attacks on this board - as have you (I applaud you for it). Even in this thread, my outrage is directed at the concept of personality attacks rather than at Island Woman. I have never had any issues with Island Woman, still don't. I atually thought about staying out of this whole thread but decided to have a little fun with the logic of it all...

  Any point can be made to stand or not stand when taken to its logical conclusion. I think we have seen how this argument has been debunked - at no stage have I seen evidence or answers to my questions. Another way to test the validity of any point is to see how easily exceptions can be found which do not fit the model.

  You used an interesting (age-old) technique of immediately jumping to a "let me simplify it" or "in a nutshell" approach to avoid the direct questions I raised. While that is obviously your right (no one has to answer the questions of some fool on an internet discussion board - so I am perfectly fine with it) I do not consider such technique effective counter-argument.

  Mr Larc, please note I have not attacked you personally. I just feel like jousting today;)
• 

  ZazuWitts

  Gravedancer,

  Now retired, Dr. larc has turned into a true night owl, so look for him this afternoon, as he was up til 7:00AM.
• 

  gravedancer

  Zazu,

  lol...wow....you need to run a tighhter ship. How could you allow him to stay up so late?

  Please make him a nice cup of tea with some cookies when he wakes up...

  GD
• 

  Abaddon

  I think this is quite simple.

  Anyone remember Schindler's List?

  Did anyone feel shock, horror, disgust, anguish, sympathy, anger? Was anyone distressed for days afterwards?

  Well, your feelings don't count, you don't know what it was like to be a Jew under Hitler.

  Now, the above sentence is both true and untrue.

  Obviously, we don't know what it was like being a Jew under Hitler.

  At the same time, we can imagine what it was like and have a genuine response to it.

  So, nobody knows what it is like to be a JW unless they were a JW.

  But, people have every right to imagine what it is like and have a genuine response to it.

  That genuine response may be right or wrong. But as the genuine responses of xJW's can also be right or wrong, that doesn't really mean anything.

  In fact, it's quite possible that someone who's not been 'in' can offer insights and perspectives that are valuable.

  I live with someone like that. She was a regular poster on Tishie's board for quite some time, because she wanted to understand me better.

  Shall I piss in her face and tell her she can never fully understand? You can if you want, and I pity you if you do...

  She might not be right all the time, but guess what?

  She cares enough to try.

  Now, there are some people here who, although they were never a Witness, care enough to try.

  Now, if you want you can piss on their efforts.

  Personally, I think that do do that is PATHETIC.

  When they are right, tell them. When they are wrong, tell them.

  I have found that sweeping, bland, invariably overblown and partially inaccurate statements tend to be the sign of someone having something against the person they are directed at, rather than anything they might have done.

  I know, 'cause I find myself doing it sometimes. I'm reacting to someone I don't particulary like, more than what they say. I catch myself at least some of the time, and drop it. I feel very grown up when I do this.

  I think atacking people, who for whatever reasons, want to hang with us, for some percieved short-coming of their life experience, just makes us look like a bunch of elitist perpetual victims.

  Shall we write a poem about it?

  Nobody knows my pain!
  You couldn't possibly understand!
  Oh woe! Woe! Woe, thrice woe,
  And another woe with a bucket
  Of kippers for luck!
  Only if you are born with
  And have lived with
  And have had to blow MY nose
  Do you know what it is like
  To have my nose.
  Only if, every day,
  You stare at my nose
  In the mirror can you truely understand

  ... *sob* ...

  My pain!

  Ooo! I'm more sorry for myself than you!
  NO I am!
  No I am!
  No, No, it's me,
  I'm more sorry for myself;
  See my wounds??? Beat that!
  When I was a lad I had to crawl
  Naked, apart from the thin layer of treacle,
  Sixteen miles over broken glass
  And screwed up copies of the Watchtower
  Before I could even START my hours.
  And I had to study t'Watchtower
  By the light generated by rubbing
  My hand's together.
  Nobody in the world could understand me!
  Feel my pain!

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
• 

  ZazuWitts

  Gravedancer,

  Think of it this way, if larc became the earlybird that I am, when-oh-when would I ever get use of the keyboard?

  7:00AM IS stretching it a bit though, usually he 'shuts down'4-5ish or so.
  Ships passing in the night has been the story of our 39-year-marriage! Hey, maybe that's why we are still together, haha!

  He will like your suggestion of cookies and tea, although today it will be eclairs.
• 

  Utopian Reformist

  Just as active JW's DO NOT HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE HOLD on spirituality, truth and brotherhood, NEITHER DO EX-JW's have an exclusive hold on PAIN & SUFFERING.

  The special nuances, details, variables and conditions that separate life as a JW from life as a Mormon, or Moonie, or Scientologist are only "cause-and-effect" details that became the catalysts for the actual pain and suffering we endured.

  The pain and suffering is the point, the main focus and the priority, not the unique differences that separate us. We can recount the details and develop community together and support one another, but to EXCLUDE, MINIMIZE, IGNORE, TRIVIALIZE, CLASSIFY, REJECT, DISMISS, anyone else's attempts to "join" and "support" our efforts is ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

  It wreaks of the elitist, pompous, arrogant, self-righteous, cliquish behavior we abhorred inside the WTBS. Who "owns" the rights to pain and suffering? Tell me who? Is it the loudest and smartest or is it the kindest and most humble? Who decides? Who has the authority?

  LET PEOPLE LIVE and GET OVER YOURSELVES!
• 

  IslandWoman

  Julie,

  On January 1 of this year you posted this on the "Re: Apology to Julie" thread:

  "Julie, who is capable enough to consider ideas and think independently to the point she managed to never join the cult in the first place, cause she knows nonsense from a mile away (and close up)"

  Before you posted this I really did not care one way or the other about your JW status or lack thereof. Though you did quickly apologize for the statement and attempt to restate it in a more palatable form, the gist of it keeps coming up in your posts.

  You were smart enough not to join, so I guess that means those that chose to join were dumb! This could very well be, but it hurts much less when said by someone who did swallow the Watchtower line.

  Trying to "shut you up" was not my intention, making a forceful point was my only aim.

  As for starting a new thread, I was amused by your title: "Hi there Island Woman", so thought it would be fun to answer back similarly.
  For some reason Amazing keeps popping up in your mind, you "see" him everywhere!

  Julie, who will take Seeker's fine advice and leave this as my only offering

  I agree Julie, that is good advice. I think you and I have better things to do than continue with this thread.

  IW