Are ALL religious ideas TRUE? (page 5)

SweetBabyCheezits

Why can't a Muslim take the same view of the Quran as you take of the Old Testament? I don't know much about Muslim beliefs but I know there are varying degrees of views within just as there are varying degrees of Christian views.

EDIT: So why can't we apply the same standard? Give the Quran the same benefit of a doubt that we give the Bible? Or not give either one the benefit of a doubt but recognize that both are writings of misogynistic men. At least then you'd be more consistent in your scrutiny.

trevor

SweetBabyCheezits I don't often comment as I am working on becoming a recluse.

But I am so glad you have started posting again. I enjoy all your posts and agree with much of what you say.

Salute!

brotherdan

Why can't a Muslim take the same view of the Quran as you take of the Old Testament?

They don't. And that's a fact. Show me a source that says that Muslims view the Koran as history and that they don't have to follow the commands of Mohammad today.

They follow all it's rules. You're really straining here, Cheeze. I'm not being intollerant of Muslims. But what they are commanded to do in the Koran NOW is wrong. Jesus abolished the laws of the OT and made that very clear in the NT. We do not practice stoning. We were never commanded to beat our wives. We are not commanded to hate all those that are not Christian. We are commanded ultimately to LOVE all people.

DanaBug

Dan,

If that were the case, there would be NO moderate muslims.

brotherdan

Show me a source that says they don't have to follow Mohammads commands. Your making the claim. I want to see proof.

DanaBug

The fact that I know muslims who don't beat their wives or kill infidels is proof. Much as there are commandments in the Bible that Christians don't follow today, there are commandments in the Q'uran that are not followed. Ask a muslim or an imam about those verses. There are liberal and progressive movements in Islam, just like Christianity. Our problem is we tend to think of Islam as one religion when it's almost as diverse as Christianity.

Look, I don't like Islam. I think the all the prayer and chanting is brainwashing. Combine that with what's been going on in the Middle East for decades and it scares the s__t out of me. But for the same reasons you reject Islam as not being true, I reject Christianity.

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/LiberalIslamLinks.htm

http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2008/01/what-is-moderate-muslim.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_movements_within_Islam

brotherdan

The fact that I know muslims who don't beat their wives or kill infidels is proof.

That is not proof. But the fact remains. The Koran commands these things of modern muslims. If muslims choose not to obey then are they really muslims? If a Christian chooses to not obey the command of Christ to "love your neighbor", then are they really a Christian?

OnTheWayOut

On the original topic, there are some absolute "truths" that are not accepted. If we look at black-and-white thinking for a moment, we all know that there absolutely IS or IS NOT a "creator" of the universe, life, mankind, etc. Oh, sure- those that are sure of their position will argue what that creator is or is not, but that absolute truth exists. We just don't know the answer. (Well, I know it but BrotherDan and Perry disagree with me.)

If there were such a creator, He/She/It either guided the writing of the Bible (or the Koran or some other supposed 'holy' writings) or it did not.

The Bible is either accurate history or it is not.

You see where I am going, Dan. There is a truth out there, but we can't handle the truth. (Sorry, couldn't resist saying that.) We don't know it for a fact. (or those of us that do know it for a fact get arguments from others- just ask many JWN posters who know the absolute truth.)

Since we are confronted with those that insist, in the face of good evidence, that we cannot know for sure, it is up to us to look for reasons to dismiss the lies and errors. We get closer and closer to truth as we dismiss them.

Some of it is not that hard, but hard-headed people don't agree. If someone says "The Bible is the inerrant Word of God," all we have to do is find an error to dismiss that statement from absolute truth. It's easy to do but then the hard-headed people start redefining the errors until the whole thing is a muddy mess.

Good luck with that.

SweetBabyCheezits

Thanks, Trevor. Wow, you're a longtime member - 2001!

I tried to lay off for a while because I burn too much time on here and tend to get opinionated on subjects in which I'm really too ignorant to even have an opinion. But it keeps my brain warm, I guess.

For Dan:http://www.alislam.org/islam/islam-peaceful-religion.pdf

My point here is a moderate Muslim (as Danabug noted) can choose to pick the verses of "peace" and follow them while taking a moderate view of the verses of "violence" the same as you do for OT and NT. I'm not saying the application will be the same and it's ridiculous to think that they must parallel across time, with the same change in application.

In other words, according to the Bible, prior to JC killing in the name of God was fair game. The good killing, raping, pillaging, stoning... that happened back then. Judeo-Christianity is just a little ahead of the curve from Islam. Even then, it wasn't too long ago we had the less-than-peaceful Inquisitions. Easy to forget about that now that Christianity is putting on it's civil pants.

DanaBug

ETA what I was replying to:

If muslims choose not to obey then are they really muslims? If a Christian chooses to not obey the command of Christ to "love your neighbor", then are they really a Christian?

I don't know, I'm neither. I don't know how they rationalize it. Maybe the good commandments take precedent over the others. Maybe they understand that the commandments to kill unbelievers or beat women violate their good commandments. Maybe some are older and others are newer and they believe the new ones replace the old ones. You'd really have to ask a moderate or liberal muslim.

But still, not all Muslims take the Q'uran as a literal follow-to-the-letter book. So it's really not fair to take verses like that out of context and then condemn the whole religion as if they do.

Are ALL religious ideas TRUE?

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