by honorsthesis 40 Replies latest social current
Hello everyone,
I am a columinst for Cornell University's "the Diplomacist". I recently wrote an article on the various troubles Jehovah's Witnesses are facing in Russia. I try to make the point that, even if you do not support the Witnesses (and most don't) you should support freedom of thought, expression and religion.
If you are interested in checking it out, here it is: "Snuffing Out Religious Freedom in Russia"
I support leaving individual Jehovah's Witnesses alone but banning the Watchtower Corporation.
Freedom of religion should be freedom of individuals to worship as they choose, as long as it doesn't interfere with freedoms of others or cost society in some other way. Freedom of religion should NOT be freedom of organized religious corporations.
That's my view.
You do realize that the Russian Orthodox Church has historically worked against any other religion in Russia and has worked hand in hand with the government?
I view this opposition as coming from that church through their influence on the government.
This ones difficult for me you honorsthesis.
On one hand I would like to say that everyone should support freedom of thought, expression and religion, but then this would still allow the WBTS to continue to exist. So I would say that this right that you speak of would only be good if & ONLY if the JW's didnt exist.. but this obviously takes away freedom of expression so I just dont know what the answer is!
Hello honorsthesis,
I am afraid I have to disagree with your opinion and article. Whereas the russian authorities indeed go too far in violating the personal integrity of individual witnesses, it is the OBLIGATION of the russian state to protect their citizens from harmful influences. The Watchtower Society is not afraid to appeal to Supreme Courts and the EHCR for the Freedom of Speech, but does not feel inclined to grant this same Freedom of Speech to their own members, and even less so to ex-members. They do not have any problem to resort to outright lies to get recognition as a religion in Bulgaria. They do not feel pressed to disclose to their own members the Watchtower Society was a member of the United Nations when their own writings condemned this organization at the SAME TIME (see their Revelation - Climax book 1988, still considered current teaching today). They do not feel responsible for the premature death of members in medical needs, forced to refuse transfusions of blood, plasma, leukocytes, red blood cells and platelets. Individual witnesses know that they WILL get disfellowshipped or considered disassociated if they do not refuse this treatment, thereby being cut off completely from family and friends for life. The Society does not feel responsible for the loss of a country when bright youngsters are told not to get a proper education. Less then 5% of witnesses have college education, the majority of these BEFORE they became witnesses. They have never admitted that their doctrines are based upon a chronology that is neither backed up by science or the bible, every attempt from individual witnesses to bring this to the attention, has led to the ultimate punishment of the individual (Carl Olof Jonsson - the Gentile Times Reconsidered). They have never accepted responsiblity for any wrong teaching they learned, and many there were, some with very bad consequences, e.g. forbidding vaccinations for decades. I can go on and on and on.
Although civil rights are problematic in Russia, the Watchtower Society does not deserve the preferential status it has enjoyed in western countries during all these decades. As cults are dangerous for people, it is the full right of the Russian state to declare it illegal, and have its activities suspended. Please do some more research before you defend such an enemy of democratic rights. The methods of Russia might be questionable, but their target is not. What could help Russia is educating the general population about the dangers of cults, using the Witnesses as an example. From Europe with love.
Thanks for everyones feedback!
I think Blondie hit the issue on the head. I wish I could have expanded more in my column, but each article is only supposed to hover around 400 words :(
@Sleepingbeauty
Although the Witnesses may be guilty of their fair share of nefariously exploitating the latitude of religious freedoms given them, I would hardly propose that the Witnesses are the WORST and most dangerous religion.
@Hoffnung
You make a lot of good arguments, and arguments I am indeed aware of. It could also be argued that ulimately all decisions by individual Witnesses are made by the individual. The WT may hold them responsible and threaten them with life-altering sanctions, but by the hand of the law they are not physically forcing their members to avoid college, blood transfusions, or enjoying the company of DF'd individuals. I am not saying I agree with this argument, but it the argument likely postulated in a court of law.
I think the main issue is the slippery slope theory. If you are a member of a religious minority in Russia, what prevents Russia from stomping their existence out as well? If it can be done once, it can be done again.
In addition, what legitimacy will Russia continue to hold in the world when they blantantly scorn a unanimous mandate from the ECHR?
Jehovah's Witnesses are as free as someone with a gun pointed to his head. The person wants to run away, but the criminal says: If you run, I'll shoot you. Technically, he is free to run, but in reality, he is held hostage. The organization does not respect the rights of the individual Witness. It is too bad this has not yet been confirmed in higher courts.
Why did the russian gov't ban 43 of the wt books? because the wts teaches hate. I'm happy the Russians are coming down hard on the wts and should send all the wts leaders in Russia to 50 years HARD LABOR in Siberia. When the WTS LAWYERS went to Russia thery all should have been SHOT BY a FIRING SQUAD. And I really mean it. If the United States gov't finished off the WTS BACK IN 1917-1918 none of us would be here CRYING HOW THE WTS HAS DESTROYED THEIR LIVES,FAMILY AND HOPES. I'm sorry I have no taste for your article. It stinks to high heaven , kissing up to the wts in the name of freedom of speach.
honorsthesis,
I am going to take a bit of a different approach here. I hope you view the review as honest and do not take offense to criticism.
In reading your article, I get the feeling that the vantage point is of a typical "foreigner". We can employ the normal laws of society as ethical and practical guide to one's behavior, but to accurately assess the opposing vantage point, one has to have had as a minimum first hand contact with the particular culture and preferably to have spent some time immersed in said culture.
The brochure in question strikes a very raw and unpleasant nerve in the Russian society - likening the current Government to the former Stalin regime. In the age of PR efforts, whether successful or not, of the current Government to distance themselves from the atrocities of Stalin, here comes a foreign corporation that throws gasoline in the fire spreading around claims backed by an unqualified majority in the courts of their own country. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THIS!
You can not go into someone else's house and expect them to play by YOUR rules.
It's basic common sense.
If the laws of the host country say you can not spread certain propaganda, you can not just go ahead and do it and then try to justify it because in your own country this is not a crime. If a 19-old Russian came to the United States and drank alcohol, he would have broken the law and no amount of convincing will make his actions "right" just because in Russia the legal drinking age is 18.
A few excerpts of the brochure are worth mentioning:
"CLAIM: Jehovah’s Witnesses endanger the State by sowing religious discord, claiming that theirs is the only true religion.
CONSIDER: Do you know of any religion that does not claim to be the true one? After all, why would people adhere to a religion if they did not believe its tenets to be true? Really, then, all religions are equally liable to the same charge. Perhaps it is more meaningful to ask, ‘How
are the adherents of a particular religion taught to treat those with different beliefs?’"
There is more falsehood in the above statements than I care to mention. Just a few Watchtower (Study Edition) quotes can nuke the above.
Here is another gem:
"CLAIM: Jehovah’s Witnesses are a destructive sect because they break up families.
CONSIDER: In any family, religion can be a sensitive issue, particularly when one member adopts a different faith. Does that mean, though, that the religions involved are to blame for the discord? Or do the individuals bear responsibility for how they handle their new differences?
For example, if strife arose in a family when one member converted to Orthodoxy or began to spend a great deal of time at the church, would the Orthodox Church beheld responsible? Surely not!"
Again, almost everyone on this board can tell you that this is an outright lie.
Breaking one’s family apart in a former Communist country has not only social implications and the resulting stigma, but it brings severe economical consequences often crossing into the realm of physical survival. Due to policies outside of the scope of this discussion, former Soviet citizens were forced for many years to work for a one apartment and one car and to call that their family possessions. Divorce was a rear occurrence (example from a personal experience – in my high school graduating class, only 2 out of 36 students had divorced parents. Compare this with the current rates in the US) and there was virtually no safety net for a place to stay, means of transportation, etc. should a couple divorce. People who have been lucky not to live under Communism are almost always amazed to learn that you couldn’t just go and rent a space or find a new job or start your life again in another city, etc…
Believe me, the mindset lives on and breaking one’s family apart is not viewed just as a mere…”…individual responsibility for how they (the parties involved) handle their differences” from the quote above. To try and apply this lawyer conscripted play of words to a situation in an entirely different culture and environment is at best disingenuous.
The Russian government simply didn't buy the WT's arguments and stuck to its guns.
The European Courts may render their opinions all they want: they are just that - the opinions of "foreigners".
Even though the English translation of the tract is a quite accurate representation of its Russian language "brother", the Russian comes across as Stalinist type propaganda. The style, self-righteous attitude and blatant ignorance of the law strikes too close to home for comfort to the very people who are trying to distance themselves from their former nightmare.
In conclusion, I agree with Mad Sweeney that the individual members are just the peons and sacrificial lambs in the hands of the Corp, and as such, should be spared from individual punishment.
Malawi should not have happened either, but we all know why and how it happened….
-Yan
honorsthesis,
I think the main issue is the slippery slope theory. If you are a member of a religious minority in Russia, what prevents Russia from stomping their existence out as well? If it can be done once, it can be done again.
The slippery slope is also a logical fallacy. Only real life experience can prove one way or another, and as of now, we are yet to hear about another religious minority stomped in Russia.
