How and when was the New Testament Compiled?

by ProdigalSon 62 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    I found it quite fascinating that there is an Italian guy named Luigi Cascioli who was suing the Catholic Church back in 2006 for inventing the story of Jesus....

    http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/2006/05/how-do-you-prove-jesus-existed.html

    I don't necessarily believe that they did exactly that, but I think they took a real man and turned him into something he never claimed to be while changing the core of his message. That being said, now to the main point of this thread....

    On another thread entitled "Scriptural Proof of a Paradise Earth", I made this comment:

    "...the New Testament was deliberately compiled to make it appear as if Jesus fulfilled all those prophecies [in the OT]."

    "clarity" then said,

    Would you expand on this further? Maybe a link. Thanks.

    So, I have been wanting to answer this, and I figured it deserved a thread of its own. Now I know it's altogether likely that this has been discussed at length on this forum, and I tried the search feature but I don't know if I used the right words because I didn't get the results I thought I would get. Anyway, I think that this subject is critical and I would like to gather as much information as possible from the very many scholarly people here.

    In all honesty, it was probably a Tony Bushby article or book where I first read that idea of the church putting the NT together to make it "fit" the OT, and I do understand that Bushby has no credibility here and for good reason, but I don't think that discredits every single thing the man has said. However, I do believe I have seen it elsewhere, and most importantly, this is the conclusion that I have reached in my own mind after examining the evidence that I have been able to find so far.

    So to answer clarity's question, there are a number of great books out there on this subject that are often mentioned here, by Bruce Metzger, Bart Ehrman, etc., but I would like to start off by quoting from what I believe to be a phenomenal mind-blowing book, "Jehovah Unmasked" by a former JW turned Gnostic, Nathaniel J. Merritt.

    Sorry about the formatting.

    Chapter Two

    The New Testament Mutates

    And Evolves

    The fact that Catholic Church leaders in both its Roman

    and Byzantine halves selected by vote which books would

    become the New Testament, will come as a shock to

    many Protestant, Evangelical, and Fundamentalist Christians.

    (For the purposes of this book, "Fundamentalist"

    means someone who believes the Bible is inerrant and

    infallible in the original autograph manuscripts. That it is

    wholly the work and word of God, the Truth in all it affirms)

    Most give no thought as to who said the New Testament

    books are the right books. Nor do they even ask if

    perhaps some of the right books were left out of the canon.

    All mainstream Christians of the western world, whether

    Protestant, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, Pentecostal or

    Charismatic, share the same canon of New Testament

    books selected and approved by the Catholic Church. They

    use the Catholic New Testament whether they are Catholic

    or not. I am not referring to the Latin Vulgate, but to

    the canon of the New Testament itself, the list of New

    Testament books.

    The New Testament did not drop out of the sky. Most

    Evangelicals and Fundamentalists know that, but they

    treat the New Testament as though it did drop out of the

    sky. Nor did the New Testament canon, the official list of

    books, pop into existence in an historical vacuum. Most

    Protestants, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists, though,

    are willfully ignorant of the historically verifiable process

    by which the books were selected. Although most non-

    Catholics have a vague unspoken notion that "spiritual

    osmosis" is how the New Testament books were selected,

    that is demonstrably untrue. Finally, the Bible lacks a divinely

    inspired table of contents. However, Evangelicals

    and Fundamentalists unthinkingly take it for granted that

    the New Testament does have a table of contents inspired

    by God.

    The truth of the matter is that the current New Testament

    books made their way into the canon after a period

    of about four hundred years. During that time the Catholic

    Church held a number of councils in both the Eastern

    (Byzantine) and Western (Roman) halves of the Empire.

    These councils were convened to decide, by vote, which of

    the dozens of gospels and epistles available to the church

    hierarchy would be regarded as Scripture.

    There was very little agreement among Christians and

    their leaders for hundreds of years as to which Christian

    writings are "scripture" and which are not. For example,

    the books of Hebrews, James, Philippians 1 and 2 Thessalonians

    1 and 2 Peter, Jude, the Gospel of John, 2 and 3 John, and

    Revelation were long rejected and deemed spurious. The

    Gospel of John and Epistles of John were disputed because

    they were too Gnostic for many Catholics, Revelation because

    it was too weird. In fact, during the first four hundred

    years of Christianity, every book now contained in

    the New Testament was considered either heretical or a

    forgery at one time or another by some segment of the

    Christian church.

    In addition, the Catholic Church considered a vast

    number of other books as Divinely inspired, but later rejected

    many of those books. A mere handful of these are:

    the seven Letters of Bishop Ignatius, the First and Second Epistles

    of Clement to the Romans, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Shepherd

    of Hermas, the Teaching of the Twelve (the Didache), the

    Epistle of Polycarp, the Acts of Paul, the Apocalypse of Peter, the

    Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of the Hebrews, the Gospel of Matthias,

    the Acts of Andrew, Paul's First Epistle to the Colossians, Paul's

    Epistle to the Laodiceans , and many others. Some of the

    books mentioned above, that once enjoyed status as Divinely

    inspired, are still in existence. Others have disappeared

    completely, and are only known by historical references

    to them. Penguin Books publishes an excellent

    paperback edition of a number of these books, titled

    Early Christian Writings.

    The first official church council that was held to attempt

    a settlement of the question of the contents of the New

    Testament was the Catholic Council of Laodicea, located

    in Asia Minor, in 363 AD. This was hundreds of years

    after the time of Christ. Over a hundred years longer than

    the United States has existed as a nation. It is as if the

    United States had declared its independence from Great

    Britain in 1776, but did not get around to ratifying the

    Declaration until the year 2139. Those who attended this

    council consisted of thirty Catholic bishops. Their official

    Catholic pronouncement decreed that no non-canonical

    books or privately written psalms can be read in the

    Catholic church, but only canonical books of the Old and

    New Testaments. The list of books they give is the same

    as modern Bibles, except it leaves out the book of Revelation.

    See The Canon of the New Testament: It's Origin, Development,

    and Significance , by Bruce Metzger, published by

    Clarendon in 1987.

    However, the Catholic laypeople did not universally accept

    the decision of this Catholic council, nor did any

    other Christians, and the dispute continued. There continued

    to be official Catholic Church councils held to decide

    this issue, such as the Council of Hippo in 393 AD,

    the Council of Carthage in 397 AD, and the Trullian

    Council in 692 AD. Somewhere in this time frame the

    Catholic Church finally settled on which books it would

    and would not accept. Scholars debate and quibble as to

    which exact Catholic council settled the issue once and

    for all. Athanasius--the Catholic Bishop of Alexandria--in 367

    AD listed the books of the NT as we have them today.

    However, to this day, various Eastern Catholic

    Churches, such as the Coptic Church, the Ethiopians, the

    Armenians and Syrians, all have different New Testaments

    than the Roman church, and from each other. The

    Armenian New Testament contains the book of Third

    Corinthians , the Syrian Orthodox New Testament lacks 2

    and 3 John , 2 Peter, Jude and Revelation, and the Coptic New

    Testament includes First and Second Clement. The Ethiopian

    Orthodox New Testament contains the letter of Clement

    and four unique books found nowhere else: the Sinodos, the

    Octateuch, the Didascalia, and the Book of the Covenant.

    How can an arbitrary voting process by a cabal of

    Catholic clergyman be regarded in any sense as definitive,

    let alone "inspired by God?" How could a conclave of

    Catholic clerics "infallibly decide" that some books belong

    in the New Testament while others do not belong?

    The fact is that many of the excluded books possess as

    much or more valid of a claim to historical veracity as the

    books that were included. This should cause the reader to

    doubt the decisions of the Catholic councils. One can

    accept the current canon of New Testament books as authoritative

    and reflecting the will of God only if one is

    willing to accept the Catholic Church, either Roman or

    Byzantine, as authoritative and reflecting the will of God.

    The fact is that the New Testament owes its current

    canon of books to the decisions of the Catholic Church.

    That fact should cause all non-Catholic Christians to reconsider

    their blind unquestioning acceptance of the

    books of the New Testament, especially since the current

    crop of New Testament books suffered editing and alteration

    at the hands of the Catholic Church. Writing in

    the third century, Origen laments the fact that the manuscripts

    of the New Testament continued being altered

    even in his day. "It is an obvious fact today that there is

    much diversity among the manuscripts, due to either the

    carelessness of the scribes, or the perverse audacity of

    some people in correcting the texts. Or again due to the

    fact that there are those who add and delete as they please,

    setting themselves up as correctors." De Principii section

    three and Commentary on Matthew. Also, Eusebius, a fourth

    century church historian, quotes a second century

    "church father" who wrote shortly after the death of the

    apostle John: "Small wonder, then, if some have dared to

    tamper even with the word of the Lord Himself." Eusebius,

    Ecclesiastical History, 4.23.

    To eliminate the "heresy" of Adoptionism (the teaching

    that the man Jesus became the Christ on the day of his

    baptism, the day the Most High God "adopted" him),

    Mark 1:11 was changed from "This day I have begotten

    you" to "In whom I am well pleased." We know that it

    was changed because Justin Martyr in his book Dialogue

    With Trypho The Jew (written about 160 AD) quotes this

    verse as "Today I have begotten you" not "In whom I am

    well pleased." Also, in Saint Augustine's book Reply To

    Faustus The Manichean, written about 400 AD,

    Augustine quotes this verse as reading "This day I have

    begotten you." This is just one example of the many

    verses that were altered by early Catholics to eliminate

    support for various "heresies."

    Of the well over 5,000 handwritten manuscripts of the

    New Testament in existence, no two read exactly alike.

    "The New Testament is now known, in whole or in part,

    in nearly five thousand Greek manuscripts alone. Every

    one of these handwritten copies differs from the others.

    It has been estimated that these manuscripts and quotations

    differ among themselves between 150,000 and

    250,000 times. The actual figure is, perhaps, much higher.

    A study of 150 Greek manuscripts of the Gospel of Luke

    has revealed more than 30,000 different readings. It is

    safe to say that there is not one sentence in the New Testament

    in which the manuscripts' tradition is wholly uniform."

    The Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible, Volume four,

    pages 594-59,quoted in Suns of God by Acharya S. Therefore,

    all Christians should seriously investigate books rejected

    by the Catholic Church; books such as the Gnostic Chris tian

    scriptures, for they contain a very different view of

    God than the Catholic New Testament.

    Protestants, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists try to

    evade the inconvenient and unpalatable facts of history

    concerning the Catholic formation of the New Testament

    canon. They attempt this by using the following straw

    man argument: "The books of the New Testament are

    inherently inspired, hence no church council, Catholic or

    otherwise, could confer inspiration upon them." This is a

    "straw man" argument because neither the Roman Catholic

    Church nor I has ever asserted nor inferred that the

    Councils "conferred inspiration" on the books of the

    New Testament. Rather, the Catholic Church has always

    stated that the books of the New Testament are inherently

    inspired, and the Catholic Church was merely the

    instrument God used in making manifest which books

    were inspired by including them in the official canon, or

    list. I do not accept that the Most High God alone inspired

    the books of the New Testament, but I do accept

    the simple fact of history that the Catholic Church was

    indeed the institution that chose the current canon of

    New Testament books.

    Protestants, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists, in an

    effort to support their "spiritual osmosis" theory of New

    Testament canon formation, will point to the writings of

    early Christians. In some of these writings are lists of

    New Testament books, lists that were left behind by these

    early Christians. One such list is the Muratorian Canon.

    Evangelicals and Fundamentalists put a lot of stock in the

    Muratorian Canon . Such people tell the unwary or uneducated

    that the Muratorian Canon lists the identical books as

    the current New Testament, and therefore the Catholic

    Councils had nothing whatsoever to do with the formation

    of the New Testament canon. However, that claim is

    an outright lie, a lie told "to further the Cause of Truth."

    The Muratorian Canon is the oldest existing list of New

    Testament books, but it was written sometime between

    the late second century and the fourth century, though

    most scholars place it in the fourth century. That means it

    does not pre-date the Catholic councils that settled the issue of the

    NT canon! Also, it's badly written and was ignored by the

    "early church fathers," and even Eusebius demonstrates

    no knowledge of it. Furthermore, the Muratorian Canon is

    a product of the Catholic Church, which is exactly the point

    I am trying to get mainstream Christians to see. In addition,

    the Muratorian Canon does not have Matthew or Mark,

    nor Hebrews or James, nor First or Second Peter, nor Third

    John . It does list the Shepherd of Hermas and The Wisdom of

    Solomon . So, the Muratorian Canon does not support the position

    of Fundamentalists and Evangelicals. It does not

    support their notion of the canon of the New Testament

    being settled very early on by a grassroots movement of

    the Holy Spirit among the common people. (A fairy-tale

    movement that had nothing to do with the Catholic

    Church councils) This is what I mean by spiritual osmosis.

    There are other early lists of New Testament books that

    so-called scholars will point to in an attempt to prove

    their "spiritual osmosis" theory of canon formation. What

    these 'scholars' purposely do not tell you is that the early

    Christians that put together these conflicting lists were

    Catholic clergyman, Catholic theologians, Catholic monks or

    hierarchs--either Roman or Byzantine--and not "common

    folks" at all. Early Church Fathers is their designation, and

    that is a Catholic designation.

    Also, many modern-day 'scholars' purposely fail to tell

    you such lists were not universally accepted, including the

    Muratorian Canon , which I have already pointed out.

    Lastly, early Catholic writers--the early Church fathers--

    who quoted from what we now call books of the New

    Testament, also quoted other books they considered inspired

    Scripture. Books that are now considered heretical

    by mainstream Christendom. That's because there was no

    set canon of New Testament books until 393 AD at the

    earliest, as we have already discussed. That's why early

    Catholic Christian 'fathers' quote from so many books

    that were later rejected by the Catholic councils. So, these

    early writings support what I am saying, and I am saying

    that it took at least several hundred years for the New

    Testament canon to be settled upon, and the Catholic

    Church leaders meeting in council did it. That's history.

    Another tactic mainstream 'scholars' use is to point to

    very early handwritten copies of the New Testament,

    manuscripts such as the Codex Vaticanus, the Alexandrian

    Codex or the Codex Sinaiticus. These manuscripts

    are very ancient, and contain, essentially, the current New

    Testament canon. However, many such "scholars" fail to

    tell you that these manuscripts are Catholic manuscripts

    that were handwritten by Catholic scribes. They contain

    not only the currently accepted books of the New Testament

    but other books as well, books such as the Shepherd

    of Hermas , the Epistle of Barnabas, the two Epistles of Clement to

    the Romans , and also the Catholic "apocryphal" books of

    the Old Testament. Which demonstrates that, when these

    manuscripts were being written, the canon of the New

    Testament was still in a state of flux. All of which brings

    us back to the fact that it took centuries to settle upon the

    current New Testament canon, and it was done by Catholic

    hierarchs meeting in councils, not by "spiritual osmosis."

    The canon did not simply "happen ."

    If one wants to speak of a grassroots movement among

    the common people, the historical fact is that the common

    folk had no books at all. Books were very rare due

    to their extreme expense resulting from their having to be

    laboriously copied by hand. The printing press was not

    invented until 1452. So, obviously, the prevailing belief in

    a Christian church in possession of a single, uniform,

    New Testament right from the start is an utter fundamentalist

    fantasy. At least several centuries passed before the

    New Testament books were decided upon, and Catholic

    Church councils did the deciding. Dissenting Christians

    with dissenting views and dissenting scriptures suffered

    persecution and censorship at the hands of the Catholic

    Church, just as dissenting Christians do today. However,

    even now there is no single uniform New Testament, for

    the New Testament of the Middle Eastern forms of

    Christianity is diverse. Which of the many "New Testaments"

    will you decide upon?

  • darth frosty
    darth frosty

    I find this take on the pisos family to be very interesting.

    http://www.tektonics.org/lp/pisocake.html

  • darth frosty
  • ProdigalSon
    ProdigalSon

    Awesome darth, thanks. I had heard about this and forgot about it before I got the chance to investigate it......

  • glenster
  • clarity
    clarity

    Wow Prodigal so much food for thought!! Many thanks to you for posting this information.

    I've read over all of it, as well as that of the Piso Family(thanks Darth & Glenster).

    To say that I feel overwhelmed is an understatement, as you all well know how we've believed as jw's, ... so very sure about every bit of it. Omg not the bible tooooooo!

    A year ago, I thought I was starting over again to understand doctrine etc. Never realizing that deep down there was more!!!

    clarity of the not so sure class

  • dgp
    dgp

    I found this book, which I haven't read yet:

    Jesus Wars: How Four Patriarch, Three Queens, and Two Emperors Decided What Christians Would Believe for the Next 1,500 years.

    http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Wars-Patriarchs-Emperors-Christians/dp/0061768936/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1298516362&sr=8-1

    And this one, too:

    The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development and Significance.

    http://www.amazon.com/Canon-New-Testament-Development-Significance/dp/0198269544/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298516512&sr=1-7

    The New Testament did not drop out of the sky. Most

    Evangelicals and Fundamentalists know that, but they

    treat the New Testament as though it did drop out of the

    sky. Nor did the New Testament canon, the official list of

    books, pop into existence in an historical vacuum. Most

    Protestants, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists, though,

    are willfully ignorant of the historically verifiable process

    by which the books were selected. Although most non-

    Catholics have a vague unspoken notion that "spiritual

    osmosis" is how the New Testament books were selected,

    that is demonstrably untrue. Finally, the Bible lacks a divinely

    inspired table of contents. However, Evangelicals

    and Fundamentalists unthinkingly take it for granted that

    the New Testament does have a table of contents inspired

    by God.

    This is great. I stopped believing in the Bible after I understood this.

    People discussed about this here:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/205309/1/The-Bible-as-inerrant-and-complete-or-sufficient

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    clarity many of us went through the same shocking awakening..... many just refuse to go deeper. letting go of the escence of your belief system is very hard but liberating... welcome to the real world

  • clarity
    clarity

    cyberjesus -thanks I appreciate that.

    c

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    It doesn't matter.

    You see, both John and Paul, the heaviest contributors to the NT never died! So we must assume they shepherded the Bible's canon and the NT to the point where they were satisfied, even if they had to be very much in the background.

    Interestingly enough, it appears the Templars who came through in the 13th Century AD must have discovered John and others with all these records. John was still alive! This posed an immediate threat and so the Catholic Church employed the Templars to "control" the situation. But by then John and the others who survived from the 1st century CE were long gone. Thus a secret quest by the Templars to search for John, who became the legendary "holy grail" was initiated. They've been looking for John ever since.

    Once I became an anointed prophet, if there is one thing that stood out was that there was far more of an interest in discovering John than concern over me. John is an intensely guarded secret among the JIOR.

    Even so, I think the most fundamental opportunity for two of the original apostles over time is to make sure the Bible was properly preserved, which it has been. I believe what we have today met the expectations of intent. So even if very much in the background, the influence of John and Paul on the Bible has to be presumed to be evident by the present Bible we have.

    But who is really going to believe that, even though it is in the Bible? Secret cults like the Templars believe it, of course. But others don't even though it is absolutely true.

    ACTS 13:41 ‘Behold it, YOU scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in YOUR days, a work that YOU will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to YOU in detail.’"

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