I swear some JWs don't believe in forgiving and forgetting. It's like a tattooed scarlet letter.

by miseryloveselders 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • miseryloveselders
    miseryloveselders

    My dad ticked me off the other night, to the point I had to hang up. I didn't abruptly hang up, but rather I told him I had company. We were discussing a sister at my hall who did something years ago. I don't want to go into specifics out of respect for her and her family. I consider her and her husband as friends, and strange enough my father views them the same way. Although the way he spoke about her, along with his judgmental disposition towards her would lead one to believe otherwise. What she did, was years ago. She's moved on since then with her life. The trouble with some JWs is, they can't seem to move on from that incident. Granted, she's a bit of a headstrong woman, and a little overbearing. Her husband is the most gentle man you could ever come across. At times it can seem as if she's "wearing the pants" in their relationship. I think that contrast between the couple, plays a role into why her reputation is sullied among some within the congregation.

    When conversing with my father, he stated that what she did, Jehovah hates, and that the scriptures support that. He emphasized to me that she'll have to live with what she did for the rest of her life. She may occasionally be able to put it behind her, but it will always be present in her mind. He stated that he wouldn't want to be in her shoes. At that point, I was already irritated by his thinking as its proposterous. It's sickening that a so called Christian can claim to love someone else, but at the same time have such a distasteful view of this person based off of something done over twenty years ago. I replied to him that what she did is no worse than what King David did. Matter fact in my opinion is less heinous than David's actions. I told him everyone in the congregation has dirt on them. Everyone. I told him that I fear the both he(my father), and others in the congregation have an unbalanced view of this woman. He disagreed with me, basically insinuating to me that her sullied reputation is well earned. I'm sure others in the congregation would express the same behind closed doors.

    Prior to getting appointed, one of the things that caused me to hesitate accepting it was knowing how elder bodies work. Growing up in this religion, I remember as a kid being on pens and needles in expectation of my dad coming home from an elder's meeting. He was never physically abusive, but verbally he can be quite disparaging. He's very capable of stripping someone entirely of their dignity and self worth. He was more prone to irritablity especially after an elder's meeting. He'd come home and speak bad about the other elders to my mother, as well as on the phone with those he had alliances with on the body. It wasn't uncommon to hear words and phrases from his mouth along the lines of, "we'll nail them!", or "he didn't say one word!", "If he does this again, I'm gonna eat him alive!" Some days I ask myself considering all of that, how'd I let him talk me into following his footsteps? I jokingly tell him that he hoodwinked me into this elder mess. I'll tell ya, its something else to be in an elder's meeting, and seeing how individuals will vote, or keep silent depending on how weak or strong they view themselves in relation or proportion to others in the meeting. Sticking to this thread subject, its something else entirely seeing how supposedly mature spiritual men can hold onto petty grudges and rivalries for multiple decades. They retain key events in their memories of when this brother or that brother crossed them, or let them down. It's ridiculous.

    The WT has had to print articles telling JWs not to hold resentment over formerly DFd people, but I wonder if thats impossible to do because of the culture this religion has to judge, mark, and hate. 75% of the Flock Book, is about sanctions and punishment. Somedays when I think about my baptism and my time in this religion, it reminds me of Hyman Roth in the Godfather II when he told Michael, "and I said to myself, this is the business we've chosen." Thats how I feel looking at this religion at times.

    You ever have to deal with individuals or families in the congregation who held onto grudges over petty issues from years ago? Or even though you've been reinstated, some in the congregation still treat you like damaged goods? How did it feel?

  • sleepingbeauty
    sleepingbeauty
    You ever have to deal with individuals or families in the congregation who held onto grudges over petty issues from years ago? Or even though you've been reinstated, some in the congregation still treat you like damaged goods? How did it feel?

    I was left feeling totally crap and nothing I did was ever good enough. I was made to feel the I had sinned against the Holy Spirit & that there was no forgiveness for sins left.... I suffered with this burden for years & years, then I woke up and was FREE @ LAST !!!!

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    You know how sometimes a girlfriend or wife will dig up something that happened last week or last month and bang you over the head with it?

    Chances are the guy won't remember what it was he was supposed to have done.

    This reminds me of that.

    It's an accusation that men have against women: Their perceived ability to dredge up the past and weild it like a weapon.

    I'm surprised that the men you mentioned are doing just that.

    I'd tell my dad, "Ah Dad, don't be such a sissy. You sound like a gossiping old woman."

    I was treated like a pariah because of who my mom was. She was notorious in every congregation.

  • LostGeneration
    LostGeneration

    What ever happened to our friend itsacult....I'm sure he would have something insightful to say like "itsacult"

    But your story is right in line with everything I have observed. Its like Jesus' sacrifice doesn't mean a thing to this bunch. Its not only about "What have you done for the org lately?" its also about "What rules have you broken in the past?"

    I got into trouble in my late teens, I was never considered for any signifcant "privileges" until I moved halls about 8 years later. I didnt change a thing from the old hall to the new, but suddenly I was on the radar to be a MS. I'm sure my rep at the old hall was held against me.

  • tec
    tec

    It is sad. And judgmental. One of the reasons I knew the religion was wrong for me was because I could see myself becoming judgmental. How can you not be judgmental when you're taught that everything except for you and your religion is in league with Satan????

    But you're right, the not forgiving and forgetting is not following Christ.

    This trait (not forgiving and forgetting) is not exclusive to jw's or ex-jw's, though. There are a lot of people who bring something up from the past and throw it in another person's face. There is something about them that does not allow them to let go... truthfully, I think its because some people can only feel good about themselves by focusing on the bad in other people. It's so discouraging and disheartening for the person being, and can so easily keep people from bettering themselves (if they even have to better themselves) I think it helps to keep the reasons people hold onto resentments and seem to enjoy judging in criticizing others.

    Tammy

  • blondie
    blondie

    Too many jws fail to believe that their forgiveness for sins was "undeserved" per the WTS. That there was no way they could EARN it. As it says below those who do not forgive, cannot receive God's forgiveness. Evidently the Bible does not apply in jw lives. I wonder how real God is to them? (BTW I am not talking about forgiving an unrepentant pedophile).

    Isaiah 43:25 “I—I am the One that is wiping out your transgressions for my own sake, and your sins I shall not remember.

    “Come now and let us reason together,” says the Lord, though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.” (Isaiah 1:18)

    << Matthew 5:7 >>
    New International Version(©1984)
    Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

    New Living Translation(©2007)
    God blesses those who are merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

    English Standard Version(©2001)
    “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

    New American Standard Bible(©1995)
    "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

    International Standard Version(©2008)
    "How blessed are those who are merciful, because it is they who will receive mercy!

    GOD'S WORD® Translation(©1995)
    Blessed are those who show mercy. They will be treated mercifully.

    King James Bible
    Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    American King James Version
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    American Standard Version
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    Bible in Basic English
    Happy are those who have mercy: for they will be given mercy.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    Darby Bible Translation
    Blessed the merciful, for they shall find mercy.

    English Revised Version
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

    Weymouth New Testament
    "Blessed are the compassionate, for they shall receive compassion.

    World English Bible
    Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

    Young's Literal Translation
    'Happy the kind -- because they shall find kindness.

    Barnes' Notes on the Bible

    Blessed are the merciful - That is, those who are so affected by the sufferings of others as to be disposed to alleviate them. This is given as an evidence of piety, and it is said that they who show mercy to others shall obtain it. The same sentiment is found in Matthew 10:42; "Whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only, in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you he shall in no wise lose his reward." See also Matthew 25:34-40. This should be done with a wish to glorify God; that is, in obedience to his commandments, and with a desire that he should be honored, and with a feeling that we are benefiting one of his creatures. Then he will regard it as done to him, and will reward us. See the sentiment of this verse, that the merciful shall obtain mercy, more fully expressed in 2 Samuel 22:26-27; and in Psalm 18:25-26.

    Nowhere do we imitate God more than in showing mercy. In nothing does God delight more than in the exercise of mercy, Exodus 34:6; Ezekiel 33:11; 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9. To us, guilty sinners; to us, wretched, dying, and exposed to eternal woe, he has shown his mercy by giving his Son to die for us; by expressing his willingness to pardon and save us; and by sending his Spirit to renew and sanctify our hearts. Each day of our life, each hour, and each moment, we partake of his undeserved mercy. All the blessings we enjoy are proofs of his mercy. If we, then, show mercy to the poor, the wretched, the guilty, it shows that we are like God. We have his spirit, and shall not lose our reward. And we have abundant opportunity to do it. Our world is full of guilt and woe, which we may help to relieve; and every day of our lives we have opportunity, by helping the poor and wretched, and by forgiving those who injure us, to show that we are like God. See the notes at Matthew 6:14-15.


    Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

    The merciful - The word mercy, among the Jews, signified two things: the pardon of injuries, and almsgiving. Our Lord undoubtedly takes it in its fullest latitude here. To know the nature of mercy, we have only to consult the grammatical meaning of the Latin word misericordia, from which ours is derived. It is composed of two words: miserans, pitying, and cor, the heart; or miseria cordis, pain of heart. Mercy supposes two things:

    1. A distressed object: and,

    2. A disposition of the heart, through which it is affected at the sight of such an object.

    This virtue, therefore, is no other than a lively emotion of the heart, which is excited by the discovery of any creature's misery; and such an emotion as manifests itself outwardly, by effects suited to its nature. The merciful man is here termed by our Lord ελεημων, from ελεος, which is generally derived from the Hebrew ??? chil, to be in pain, as a woman in travail: or from ??? galal, to cry, or lament grievously; because a merciful man enters into the miseries of his neighbor, feels for and mourns with him.

    They shall obtain mercy - Mercy is not purchased but at the price of mercy itself; and even this price is a gift of the mercy of God. What mercy can those vindictive persons expect, who forgive nothing, and are always ready to improve every advantage they have of avenging themselves? Whatever mercy a man shows to another, God will take care to show the same to him. The following elegant and nervous saying of one of our best poets is worthy of the reader's most serious attention: -

    "The quality of mercy is not strained;

    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven

    Upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed;

    It blesseth him who gives, and him who takes:

    'Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes

    The throned monarch better than his crown

    It is an attribute of God himself;

    And earthly power doth then show likest God's,

    When mercy seasons justice. -

    continued...


    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    Blessed are the merciful,.... Who show mercy to the bodies of men, to those that are poor, indigent, and miserable, in their outward circumstances; by both sympathizing with them, and distributing unto them; not only making use of expressions of pity and concern; but communicating with readiness and cheerfulness, with affection and tenderness, and with a view to the glory of God: who also show mercy to the souls of men, by instructing such as are ignorant, giving them good counsel and advice: reproving them for sin, praying for them, forgiving injuries done by them, and by comforting those that are cast down. To show mercy is very delightful to, and desirable by God; it is what he requires, and is one of the weightier matters of the law; it is very ornamental to a child of God, and what makes him more like to his heavenly Father. The happiness of such persons is this, that

    they shall obtain mercy; from man, whenever they are attended with any uncomfortable circumstances of life; , "whoever is merciful", men show mercy to him (d): and from God, through Christ; which is free, sovereign, abundant, and eternal. Men are said to obtain this, when they are regenerated, and called by grace; and when they have a discovery, and an application, of the forgiveness of their sins: but here, it seems to design those supplies of grace and mercy, which merciful persons may expect to find and obtain, at the throne of grace, to help them in time of need; and who shall not only obtain mercy of God in this life, but in the world to come, in the great day of the Lord; for which the Apostle prayed for Onesiphorus, 2 Timothy 1:18.

    (d) Maimon. Hilch. Mattanot Anayim. c. 10. sect. 2.


    Vincent's Word Studies

    The merciful

    See on Luke 1:50.


    Geneva Study Bible

    Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.


    People's New Testament

    5:7 Blessed are the merciful. The merciful, those who, instead of resenting injury, are ready to forgive, shall obtain the divine mercy. The fifth petition of the Lord's prayer implies that we must forgive if we expect to be forgiven (Mt 6:12).


    Wesley's Notes

    5:7 The merciful - The tender - hearted: they who love all men as themselves: They shall obtain mercy - Whatever mercy therefore we desire from God, the same let us show to our brethren. He will repay us a thousand fold, the love we bear to any for his sake.


    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

    7. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy-Beautiful is the connection between this and the preceding beatitude. The one has a natural tendency to beget the other. As for the words, they seem directly fetched from Ps 18:25, "With the merciful Thou wilt show Thyself merciful." Not that our mercifulness comes absolutely first. On the contrary, our Lord Himself expressly teaches us that God's method is to awaken in us compassion towards our fellow men by His own exercise of it, in so stupendous a way and measure, towards ourselves. In the parable of the unmerciful debtor, the servant to whom his lord forgave ten thousand talents was naturally expected to exercise the small measure of the same compassion required for forgiving his fellow servant's debt of a hundred pence; and it is only when, instead of this, he relentlessly imprisoned him till he should pay it up, that his lord's indignation was roused, and he who was designed for a vessel of mercy is treated as a vessel of wrath (Mt 18:23-35; and see Mt 5:23, 24; 6:15; Jas 2:13). "According to the view given in Scripture," says Trench most justly, "the Christian stands in a middle point, between a mercy received and a mercy yet needed. Sometimes the first is urged upon him as an argument for showing mercy-'forgiving one another, as Christ forgave you' (Col 3:13; Eph 4:32): sometimes the last-'Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy'; 'Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven' (Lu 6:37; Jas 5:9). And thus, while he is ever to look back on the mercy received as the source and motive of the mercy which he shows, he also looks forward to the mercy which he yet needs, and which he is assured that the merciful-according to what Bengel beautifully calls the benigna talio ('the gracious requital') of the kingdom of God-shall receive, as a new provocation to its abundant exercise." The foretastes and beginnings of this judicial recompense are richly experienced here below: its perfection is reserved for that day when, from His great white throne, the King shall say, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was an hungered, and thirsty, and a stranger, and naked, and sick, and in prison, and ye ministered unto Me." Yes, thus He acted towards us while on earth, even laying down His life for us; and He will not, He cannot disown, in the merciful, the image of Himself.


    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

    5:3-12 Our Saviour here gives eight characters of blessed people, which represent to us the principal graces of a Christian. 1. The poor in spirit are happy. These bring their minds to their condition, when it is a low condition. They are humble and lowly in their own eyes. They see their want, bewail their guilt, and thirst after a Redeemer. The kingdom of grace is of such; the kingdom of glory is for them. 2. Those that mourn are happy. That godly sorrow which worketh true repentance, watchfulness, a humble mind, and continual dependence for acceptance on the mercy of God in Christ Jesus, with constant seeking the Holy Spirit, to cleanse away the remaining evil, seems here to be intended. Heaven is the joy of our Lord; a mountain of joy, to which our way is through a vale of tears. Such mourners shall be comforted by their God. 3. The meek are happy. The meek are those who quietly submit to God; who can bear insult; are silent, or return a soft answer; who, in their patience, keep possession of their own souls, when they can scarcely keep possession of anything else. These meek ones are happy, even in this world. Meekness promotes wealth, comfort, and safety, even in this world. 4. Those who hunger and thirst after righteousness are happy. Righteousness is here put for all spiritual blessings. These are purchased for us by the righteousness of Christ, confirmed by the faithfulness of God. Our desires of spiritual blessings must be earnest. Though all desires for grace are not grace, yet such a desire as this, is a desire of God's own raising, and he will not forsake the work of his own hands. 5. The merciful are happy. We must not only bear our own afflictions patiently, but we must do all we can to help those who are in misery. We must have compassion on the souls of others, and help them; pity those who are in sin, and seek to snatch them as brands out of the burning. 6. The pure in heart are happy; for they shall see God. Here holiness and happiness are fully described and put together. The heart must be purified by faith, and kept for God. Create in me such a clean heart, O God. None but the pure are capable of seeing God, nor would heaven be happiness to the impure. As God cannot endure to look upon their iniquity, so they cannot look upon his purity. 7. The peace-makers are happy. They love, and desire, and delight in peace; and study to be quiet. They keep the peace that it be not broken, and recover it when it is broken. If the peace-makers are blessed, woe to the peace-breakers! 8. Those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake are happy. This saying is peculiar to Christianity; and it is more largely insisted upon than any of the rest. Yet there is nothing in our sufferings that can merit of God; but God will provide that those who lose for him, though life itself, shall not lose by him in the end. Blessed Jesus! how different are thy maxims from those of men of this world! They call the proud happy, and admire the gay, the rich, the powerful, and the victorious. May we find mercy from the Lord; may we be owned as his children, and inherit his kingdom. With these enjoyments and hopes, we may cheerfully welcome low or painful circumstances.


    2 Samuel 17:28 brought bedding and bowls and articles of pottery. They also brought wheat and barley, flour and roasted grain, beans and lentils,
    2 Samuel 22:26 "To the faithful you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless,
    Psalm 18:25 To the faithful you show yourself faithful, to the blameless you show yourself blameless,
    Proverbs 11:17 A kind man benefits himself, but a cruel man brings trouble on himself.
    Proverbs 11:25 A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
    Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
    Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
    Matthew 18:33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'
    James 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment! New International Version ©1984 by Biblica
  • nugget
    nugget

    It is a shame that people cling to old attitudes. A circuit overseer said once that if you feel that you can't forgive yourself for past sins then you are arrogantly suggesting that Jesus' sacrifice was not enough to cover your sin. I took it to mean that once a person had been reinstated their past sins should be forgotten.

    It is sad that there isn't evidence to support the idea that others forget the sins of the past. Even when people have been integrated back into the congregation there is still a slightly condescending attitude towards those who have been Df'd it's almost as if people are waiting for them to slip up again.

  • snakeface
    snakeface

    I have seen this too. Not only a past disfellowshipping but even minor things and also gossip and rumors are held against the person indefinitely and follow him/her to their next congregation.

    Witnesses are conditioned to look at the bad in each person so they can tell them how much "they" (the other person) need the kingdom. Other religions teach to look for the good in others and build on it.

    I knew of an elderly couple, (couple A) now deceased, who were baptized in 1950 (before I was born!) Shortly thereafter they witnessed to their friends (couple B). couple B also got baptized. Later on Couple A became inactive for many years. When I met them they had just returned and were active in the congregation, and remained so till their deaths. But behind their backs Couple B always made comments like, "Well I never fell away or had any doubts, not for one second. I was always completely faithful.." I always LOVED to use the scriptures on them (couple B) about being "faithful in what is least" and "gadding about, talking of things they ought not..."

  • DanaBug
    DanaBug

    There's little room for mistakes in that religion. Every little thing you do wrong and every person who dresses worldly or likes worldly entertainment can lead to destroying your relationship with God. They forget that the whole message of the NT is that God loves despite mistakes and obeying rules does not earn salvation. That's the whole problem with legalistic religion.

    I personally destroyed two friendships because they were doing some minor thing that I was worried would lead them into trouble, things that didn't really matter in the long run. But I thought it was the loving and right thing to confront them and help them see their error. Nevermind that it was none of my business and extremely judgemental. And when they didn't heed my "bible-based" advice (actually Watchtower-based), I refused to continue the relationship because they were bad association. What a shitty thing to do.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Self-aggrandizing is huge among JWs. Others are judged, criticized, and belittled in an attempt to make the speaker feel or appear to be superior. As Blondie already showed, Jesus wouldn't approve. If someone wants to play judge, he's entitled to judge only himself.

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