I'm a new study, need advice. (page 4)

sabastious

Good luck and welcome to the forum, btw!

-Sab

Black Sheep

A friend of mine tells me her brother (an Athiest) kept a couple of JWs coming back for two years until they finally left the church.

You might need to be patient, but it can be done.

Cheers

Chris

punkofnice

Hello RIF and good luck with your mission.

Don't be surprised if your questions are met with 'circular reasoning' or are deflected off to another subject.

Don't expect the JW's to alter their thinking as 'factory default setting' often flips their mind back to being watchtower controlled.

Beware of the dangers of you yourself being dran in to the dangerous 'mind control' that the JW's don't realise they are using. The methods are sophisticated and may be convincing. Steven Hassan's book touches on these techniques. Also check out Craig's youtube channel 'propogandatechniques' for more info.

Also Tim Kilgore on youtube has some really thought provoking questions to ask JW's.

I wish you well but am also concerned for you. You might not unlock the JW's mind and might get 'infected' by the filth yourself.

Let us know how it goes!

Vidiot

NewChapter - "They are prepared to answer anything to do with science."

Ehh, not so much these days, actually.

More often than not, lately you'll just get crickets chirping, or the default (and rather half-hearted) "wait on Jehovah" response when confronted (even in a nice way) with any kind of scientific discovery, advancement, breakthrough that doesn't jive with the WT worldview.

Don't believe me?

Ask them a few questions like, "if the Bible states that all land animals were vegetarian prior to the Deluge, why have paleonologists found fossilized mammal skeletons inside the body cavities of fossilized dinos?", or "why have they found allosaur teeth imbedded in apatosaur bone?", and if they answer with "maybe these animals were on board Noah's Ark", then ask "if humans and dinosaurs were contemproaries, why are there no cave paintings of dinos? Why are there no human remains in the same layers of rock as dino remains?".

Another one is "taking into consideration the specific dimensions of the Noachian Ark stated in the book of Genesis, and also taking into account the volume required for a year's worth of supplies, there would have been space on board a vessel that size for aproximately 2000 different species of mammals, birds, and reptiles, maybe 3000 on the outside. At present, however, there are over 30,000 known species of birds, mammals, and reptiles (not including invertebrates, aquatic species, and the like). Where did all these 'new' species come from?"

Or for something a little more personal, "geneticists have recently discovered that certain sections of human DNA specifically code for immunization against diseases that can only be contracted via cannibalism, and this coding has been found in every strand of human DNA sampled; all - no exceptions - including samples taken from the oldest human remains found. Since the human immune system only acquires immunity by building antibodies after being infected, but Genesis states that all humans were vegetarian prior to the Deluge (all - no exceptions), how does one explain the need for and means of such immunization?"

Have fun.

jgnat

I'm a regular Christian married to a Witness. My "study" maybe lasted five weeks. My personality is probably too direct to allow a study like this to continue much farther. I don't think we got past page 3 because I would not submit that the bible is infallible. We agreed to disagree and departed on friendly terms.

Jehovah's Witnesses are calmed by people with a peaceful and agreeable demeanor. As long as you nod and agree a lot, the study can continue for some time. Like I say, I don't have the personality for that.

It helps if you know your bible; and I mean, KNOW it, so that you don't get hung up on "proof texts". Arguing about the trinity is a complete waste of time, for instance, because neither can "prove" their case and you end up virtually throwing texts at each other. How you use your bible is to insist on reading quotes in context and gleaning the intended purpose of the passage.

Challenge the concept of the "other sheep" and the identity of the "faithful and discreet slave".

Ask questions, and when deferred, personally keep a list of the unanswered ones, and bring them up until given a satisfactory answer.

I'd allow them to defer, but never deflect. Get them to admit what has been left unanswered.

Also good to follow up is any claims that can be challenged by historical fact. Jesus' return, for instance. There are no contemporary newspapers that record the event. So is it an invisible return, and how does that line up with biblical prophecy?

I like to challenge the treatment of the brothers and sisters. If they are closest to "true" Christians today, they sure don't treat their wounded sheep very well. I would very much like to know, of any new Witness I meet, if there is any friend or close family member that they haven't talked to lately because they are not in "good standing". How is this an example of Christian love?

The words you speak that will stick will be those said in kindness. Jehovah's Witnesses have few defences against kindness.

Best of luck.

FollowedMyHeart

Hello RiF. Good luck in your efforts. I was raised as a JW and would like to just share a couple thoughts I had while reading through all these great comments.

The person that helped me get out (unintentionally, I might add) asked questions or brought up issues he had and wanted to know what I believed. Being the eager JW that would "show him the light", I answered with a lot of info. What got me was that he then asked me to tell him what I believed, in my own words. I couldn't do it w/o using the WT lingo. Also, when I had to say, out loud, that the God of love was going to kill all the humans on earth that weren't JWs, that really struck something inside me. So you never know what small thing will reach them.

I wish you all the best.

Black Sheep

Welcome to the forum, FollowedMyHeart

Your friend did the right thing. He made you talk.

This is something that us ex-JWs have a hard time getting to grips with. We need to learn how to encourage our Dubs to say stuff that makes them feel like nut jobs when they lie in bed that night.

Telling them about the silliness of the flood doesn't work as it just IDs you as an Apostate that they should not listen to, and God can do magic tricks to fix any of the problems you bring up anyway.

Getting them to tell you that their 'Good News' is that Jehovah is going to kill the neighbor's baby just because it had the misfortune to be born into a staunch Catholic family will make far more of an impression.

Cheers

Chris

Black Sheep

Arguing about the trinity is a complete waste of time, for instance, because neither can "prove" their case and you end up virtually throwing texts at each other. How you use your bible is to insist on reading quotes in context and gleaning the intended purpose of the passage.

You can make a JW look like a fool with the Trinity if you don't fall for any of their diversion tactics, but it is best done with an audience as the JW probably won't 'get it' but the audience will.

"... throwing texts at each other ..." otherwise known as 'Bible Ping Pong' is their favorite tactic for throwing you off balance.

If you are going to discuss a scripture, you have to retain control over the conversation and keep them discussing the problem with your scripture. They want to race off and show you a scripture that they feel supports their view in the hope that you will then forget that they haven't shown that there isn't a problem with your scripture. The thought that your scripture really does mean what what it says is something they never have to confront if their target can be induced to play their game.

But like jgnat said, "Arguing about the trinity is a complete waste of time", because in the end, they believe that their religious leaders were selected as God's sole channel, so no matter how sensible your argument was, they have The Truth and you don't. I have seen that happen over and over again.

The best weapon in this war is psychology, not theology.

Snoozy

Did you know that one of the religion's founders only had 7 (or less than) years of schooling?

CT Russell..look it up.

Welcome to the discussion board..

Snoozy

I'm a new study, need advice.

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