"We are all atheists ... (page 2)

aSphereisnotaCircle

How do you tell the difference between Jesus or gods voice and a schizoprenic episode?

Is it just a matter of how good it makes you feel? Or how profound it feels?

jay88

How can you be (anti) to something that never existed?

maninthemiddle

leavingwt, thanks for clearing that up.

How do you tell the difference between Jesus or gods voice and a schizoprenic episode?

I guess not all voices make bad choices?

leavingwt

How do you tell the difference between Jesus or gods voice and a schizoprenic episode?

I think we can all admit that it's unfalsifiable. I'm also willing to admit that I'm not going to spend any energy thinking about it very much. They hold their beliefs and I hold mine. Mine include no invisible people. I'm open to the possibility of invisible people in the same way that I'm open to time travel. At present, I've seen nothing that convinces me of such things.

tec

Here is my problem with both of those statements (in the op):

1) Atheists just go one god further. This is not an entirely valid point. There is a big difference between an atheist and a theist and that is a belief in a creator - no matter the name, sex, mono/polytheist, etc. A theist believes in a creator (s); and the atheist does not. Even if the theist has gotten the nature and/or personality of the creator(s) wrong (or continue to do so), they still have that belief that a god/goddess/etc created everything in the universe.

2) We are all born atheists. We are also all born non-evolutionists, but that doesn't mean that evolution is untrue. An infant is born without any beliefs other than feed me, change me, hold me - and even those are not thought out.

Tammy

MrFreeze

I'm on the border here. On one hand, I see a lack of evidence for God. On the other hand, I'm open to the idea of there being a God. Maybe there is a God. Is it the Judeo-Christian God? Is it some unknown God who created all things, that has chosen to never reveal itself? We will probably never know.

Essentially, I'm not that egotistical to think that I know for certain there is no God. I believe that there may very well be a God. However, until I see proof that said God actually does exist, I'm sticking on the fence.

Nickolas

I continue very much to enjoy your repartee, Tammy. There is just no substitute for maturity and intelligence in conversation, and you have both in spades. Both of your points are valid.

Do you think it possible that modern theists have wrong the nature and/or personality of the current Creator they believe in? I guess a different way of posing that question is, if there is a Creator of the universe, might it not be Yahweh? A person who allows the possibility of there being a Creator of the universe but who does not assign an identity to it is generally thought of as a deist, which is a different kettle of fish.

Yes, we are all born non-evolutionists, but the difference is that evolutionary theory is a field of science subject to evidentiary challenges and counter-challenges. Religion tolerates neither.

unshackled

1) Atheists just go one god further. This is not an entirely valid point. There is a big difference between an atheist and a theist and that is a belief in a creator - no matter the name, sex, mono/polytheist, etc. A theist believes in a creator (s); and the atheist does not. Even if the theist has gotten the nature and/or personality of the creator(s) wrong (or continue to do so), they still have that belief that a god/goddess/etc created everything in the universe.

The OP listed names of specific gods throughout history - Ra, Jupiter, Posseidon, Huitzilopochtli, Baal, etc. Sure, SOME may simply believe in a sort of creator, however vague. But the point the OP addresses is that the vast majority of believers on our planet specifically believe in the God of Abraham. Whether it is Judaism, Christianity or Islam. And not many believers waver from their strict adherence that their ideology of the God of Abraham is the right one. But they do all believe specifically in this one god.

So in context that the God of Abraham is the world's current "god du jour", I think it is very much a valid point.

tec

Sorry for leaving so abruptly, Nick. One computer. Two sons. Video games. You understand ;)

I do believe it is possible that modern theists have the nature of their Creator wrong; in fact I'd have to say I know it. There are a lot of people, and a lot of different ideas.

Of course, you know where my beliefs lie, and that is with Christ. That is a different thread, but I have thought about the other religions. Judaism without Christ does not seem quite right; it just leads to Christ for me. (Since Christ was a Jew, then that makes sense) Islam respects Christ, but Mohammed seems to be a product of his time, whereas Christ does not seem so - limited only by what the people could understand. Hinduism and its caste systems seem unjust (though I am unsure how much of that is a religious teaching, and how much of it has become intolerance because of the people - much like Christians have acted abominably in the past - not due to teachings, but due to their own natures). While inner peace can certainly be found in Buddhism, for me I find I have to be semi-detached from others to achieve it, and while I can do that with friends and strangers, I cannot do that with my immediate family. Listening to Christ however, and learning love from Him, from which love flows peace, does allow me to be compassionate toward others and at peace.

... But that is a different thread, I think. Sorry :)

Yes, we are all born non-evolutionists, but the difference is that evolutionary theory is a field of science subject to evidentiary challenges and counter-challenges. Religion tolerates neither.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, or what this means in terms of what we are born as being. (perhaps you were just making a point about religion and science, though I was just making a point about beliefs at birth)

In either case, I am not religious... but religion has certainly undergone great changes; as society itself changes and we learn more about ourselves as humans. I agree that religion is more rigid in its beliefs though, and does not much like those beliefs to be challenged or questioned. But while scripture might not change, doctrines and interpretations have and do. (not always for the better, and sometimes very slowly, but often to match the changes in society - or sometimes as results show that the former way was not beneficial to faith and society)

Tammy

PSacramento

There is a minor misconception that "monotheists" don't believe in any other Gods.

They believe in ONE SUPREME God, but they recognise many other "lesser Gods".

God is the Supreme being, but angels are "gods", Satan is known as "god of this world" ( figureitively of course), we ourselves can/will be "gods".

The "one less God" thing doesn't really work in that regard.

"We are all atheists ...

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