"We are all atheists ... (page 3)

leavingwt

What PSacramento says is true. We really break into two groups, IMHO. (1) Those who believe in Invisible People & Magic, and those who don't.

PSacramento

What PSacramento says is true. We really break into two groups, IMHO. (1) Those who believe in Invisible People & Magic, and those who don't.

Well, I wouldn't put it in such a condesending way.

There are those the believe in what is "beyond nature" ( or perhaps better put that we believe Nature to be far more than what we think it to be) and those that don't because according to them there is no proof of such.

Nickolas

In either case, I am not religious...

I'm puzzled by your statement, Tammy. How can you believe in Jesus but not be religious? Is it that you do not follow any organised religion?

There is a minor misconception that "monotheists" don't believe in any other Gods.

Hey there, PSacramento. It's been awhile. I thought of you a number of times recently while reading Sam Harris' End of Faith. Are you familiar with it?

I've always wondered about that, your point I mean. I was raised Roman Catholic, and we not only had "three persons in one God" (which in itself suggests polytheism), we had Mary, 'Queen of Heaven' to whom we prayed as much as to her son, 5,120 saints to whom we prayed selectively, the four Choirs of Angelic Hosts, arrayed in nine orders: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and your everyday run-of-the-mill Angels, including our Guardian Angels (who, as a child, I would ask to turn aside while I went to the bathroom). Yet, we were told there was only one God. If ever there was a so very obvious example of modern mythicism, the Roman Catholic Church is it. All Abrahamic religions (which also claim to be monotheisitic) have there various supernatural creatures, too. But forget about all those other lesser branches of the tree. If you deny the existence of the tree, you deny the existence of the branches, too.

SweetBabyCheezits

including our Guardian Angels (who, as a child, I would ask to turn aside while I went to the bathroom).

Haha, that reminds me of my fear as a child that recently deceased members of the "anointed" could see me in the bathroom. But a personal guardian angel - yeah, that's worse.

"Do not watch. I cannot go when you watch." - Tyler Durden

Sorry. Continue...

tec

Is it that you do not follow any organised religion?

Yes. No organized religion, no church. Just faith in Christ.

(gone until after work now... have fun)

Tammy

trevor

It is unfortunate that anyone who does not pray to a personal god is often labeled an atheist. Many people have a sense that there is a pervading intelligence at work throughout the universe; that the universe is aware of itself. This is not enough to be a theist. A theist believes in a personal god that he or she can talk to.

We each have many obvious beliefs going on in our mind but also subtle, less easily defined views. Labels are not helpful because not every thing in the universe, or our mind, can be nailed down and finalised. Nor is that a desirable aim.

PSacramento

Hey there, PSacramento. It's been awhile. I thought of you a number of times recently while reading Sam Harris' End of Faith. Are you familiar with it?

I've read it and I, obviously, don't agree.

I like Dawkins and love Hitchens but Harris, well...Mom told me that if you can't say anything nice about someone...

I've always wondered about that, your point I mean. I was raised Roman Catholic, and we not only had "three persons in one God" (which in itself suggests polytheism), we had Mary, 'Queen of Heaven' to whom we prayed as much as to her son, 5,120 saints to whom we prayed selectively, the four Choirs of Angelic Hosts, arrayed in nine orders: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels and your everyday run-of-the-mill Angels, including our Guardian Angels (who, as a child, I would ask to turn aside while I went to the bathroom). Yet, we were told there was only one God. If ever there was a so very obvious example of modern mythicism, the Roman Catholic Church is it. All Abrahamic religions (which also claim to be monotheisitic) have there various supernatural creatures, too. But forget about all those other lesser branches of the tree. If you deny the existence of the tree, you deny the existence of the branches, too.

Personally I don't get where the RCC got the notion to pray to ANYONE other than God and Christ, but hey, to each their own.

The Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious expressions believe in one supreme God, and they also believe in lesser spriritual beings that can be called "gods" also.

While the literal sense of monotheisim states a belief in only ONE God, it is quite clear that most, if not all, monotheistic religions view it more like one SUPREME God.

The OT makes it clear that there is only One God to be worshiped, and to have no other God before God, not that there are NO OTHER Gods at all.

Nickolas

Labels are not helpful because not every thing in the universe, or our mind, can be nailed down and finalised.

Hey there, trevor. Labels in this context are a sort of shorthand, they narrow the field in such a way that understanding is facilitated. What you are describing in your first paragraph, for example, is pantheism, which Dawkins describes as "sexed-up atheism". Tammy in her rejection of conventional religious teaching is approaching deism. None of these labels is derogatory.

Nickolas

I've read it and I, obviously, don't agree.

Yup, that's why I thought about you as I read it. The thesis that faith does harm to the world would be an interesting topic for another thread.

trevor

Hi there, Nickolas. I realize that these labels are not derogatory but they are not always helpful either. As humans, with the power of speech, we tend to try to reduce everything to words. This is essential on a forum like this. However some things cannot be appreciated or explained through words.

For example, I sometimes have the most vivid lucid dreams that I watch unfold without words. They leave me with a different perspective. On waking I cannot put into words what I have experienced. The mind is capable of much more than we may realize. Though words are enormously helpful, there are times where they are not up to the job.

"We are all atheists ...

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