Markersmark ... sorry I spelled your name wrong! After looking it up, I concentrated on not putting in an apostrophe and then dropped the s!! sillyme.
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Here i am....
by makersmark 81 Replies latest jw experiences
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Cadellin
Makers Mark, welcome. Yes, it's tough. For me, it was the intellectual dishonesty. You might find it enlightening to research how the WT uses secular quotes to lend a veil of authority to their teachings, when in fact the original context nullified their use. Crisis of Conscience is a must-read.
You might also want to investigate the history of the Bible from an authoritative, non JW source. So many of their teachings regarding the Bible's canon and authorship of individual books is based on...Jewish tradition! The SI book acknowledges this for many books of the Hebrew scrips. And yet a close examination of recent, scholarly historical analysis shows that there is literally no way that, for example, Moses could have penned the Pentateuch and other similar things. For this, Who Wrote the Bible? by Richard Friedman is excellent.
And keep reading posts, and let us know how it goes.
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mamalove
Hi and Welcome! It is very exciting to know that "strong" JW's are still open minded enough to question things that seem iffy to them. I say that because, like myself, many of us are estranged from our families because we believe the religion is not the truth, so we can't be a real family now....posts like yours give me hope!
You got a load of awesome, thought provoking posts to read through. The amount of research put into every single point listed is astounding. Proof, records, photos of real books, etc. One poster traveled for his job, so he went to numerous libraries, documented it, and took photo's of dozens of books showing the fall in 587 not 607. It was there in black and white, pretty powerful. The whole 1914 thing for me shoots down the theory of the GB being the channel to holy spirit. So if they are not the channel, then surely things published can be questioned.
One thing that got my ball rolling in 2006 was reading a book about the FLDS (Mormon sect). The paralles to JW's struck me.
Sure there are some ok things about JW's, also about Presbitarian's, Methodists, Catholics, etc. They are all religions that try to teach a good message. Are any of them the way to eternal life? Are any perfect? No. If God wanted me to follow something, I think he would make it loud and clear.
Life is a journey, best to you on your path.
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Franklin Massey
Welcome Maker's Mark. I'm serving as an elder now and have asked, or are currently asking, many of the questions you listed in your post.
I had to ask myself is, where does the body of evidence for any given claim rest? If I placed both sides of any given argument on a scale, which way would it tip?
For me, the deeper my research goes, the more evidence I find contrary to some of my dearly held JW beliefs. The more arguments I hear from "the other side," a side that is grossly unrepresented in JW teaching, the more often the scale tips away from the Watchtower Society. We have a serious problem with information control in the Organization, and rightly so. If we freely discussed all possibililties relating to any given teaching, said teaching is at risk of becoming less convincing. The more plausible options there are for understanding a metaphsyical concept, the further we get away from "absolute truth."
There are some things that JWs have right. But on these subjects, JWs are not the sole posessors of these ideas. We're not as special as we like to think we are.
The key doctrines that make JWs unique from the rest of the Christian denominations pose another tricky problem when scrutinized. If I move aside those that are shaky, unconvincing, logically twisted, or outright false....I'm left with the sinking feeling that at it's core, JW theology is not that different from the other Christian denominations that are, according to JWs, going to be the objects of Jesus and Jehovah's vengeful fury.
You were right when you said that you have a lot of thinking a research to do. I wish you the best in your search.
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jamiebowers
Welcome to JWN! I just want to touch on a few of your highlights.
First of all, the claim by the Watchtower that it joined the UN for a library card is false. There was a letter floating around somewhere on this board that proved membership wasn't required to use the UN library. If you want to read it, you can probably get it by posting a request for it here on JWN.
Second, df'ing in the Bible meant spiritual shunning and not familial. There was also a whole write up on that floating around here too. There are many "sins" such as substance abuse that require family assistance for recovery in many cases. Df'ing takes that away. Aside from that, df'ing is misused by the Watchtower, which is part of the reason there is so much animosity toward the governing body. And, in my opinion, df'ing has led jws to confuse crimes with sins, such as is the case with the child molestation and wife battering problems within the congregations.
Check with Barbara Anderson at watchtowerdocuments.com about the above mentioned problems. Ted J. sent CO's out to threaten molestation victims and their families with df'ing if they came forward about the child molestation cover ups. Just that issue alone boggles my mind.
I hope you find your way in learning the truth about the "truth", and I hope your journey isn't near as difficult as it is for others in your shoes. It gives me hope when anyone starts on this path, but it gives me particular joy when it's an elder. Please understand that as such, you hold the power of life and death in your hands. This is true in the case of the blood and neutrality issues as well as with child abuse and domestic violence.
I hold these issues near and dear to my heart, because I suffered sexual abuse in the form of attempted rape as a child and domestic violence as a wife while under Watchtower control. And although the elders counseled my abusers, nothing was done except the withholding of so-called "privilages" from them. Child molestation and domestic violence aren't sins, my friend, they are crimes, and they should've been reported to the police.
So, yes, there is lots of hatred for the Watchtower here, and with good reason. As far as the practice of using terms such as "Kingdumb Hell", "piosneering", "witlesses", etc., I don't often use them. However, if it makes someone else feel better in doing so, I have no objection to it. At first it may turn newbies off from this board, but it's also a lesson learned. There is freedom when you learn the truth about the "truth", and that freedom includes loosening the bonds of fear of the Watchtower.
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satinka
Religion is the only institution where no emotional growth takes place ... the 18th Century cruel practice of shunning being one example. To me, shunning seems like the WT is scared of losing its followers by finding out what "Apostates TM " are feeling or saying. So, just put a label on them and put them in the "Apostate TM " box and tuck them neatly out of your way. Doesn't the WT have enough faith in its members and in its doctrines to TRUST that the followers will not be swayed by someone else's thinking? Perhaps the WT does not quite believe all their own propaganda themselves, so how can they trust the flock to have that kind of unwavering faith and trust? They can't.
The JWs have a fear-based belief system ... the ever-coming Armageddon being an example.
Yes, statistics say numeric growth has happened, but numbers can lie. Numbers aside, doctrinally, the JWs do all kinds of backstrokes to cover up their false prophecies. Yes, FALSE PROPHECIES. If a prophet speaks and it does not happen, the prophet is FALSE. The dates and new dates and MORE NEW DATES prove to me that the JWs are false prophets. The Bible confirms.
God's chosen people? NOT!
satinka
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Thor
Hello Makersmark and welcome!
Glad you are here
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Lozhasleft
Hello and welcome - I too recommend you read Crisis of Conscience - its a must read for all JWs exJWs and even studies. It may break your heart but it will certainly lift any veils from your eyes.
Loz x
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jam
What is the typical response from witnesses or how do they address
the issue of A religion that is known to be one of the leading religious
organization with the most fail prophecies, A religion known for
breaking up families and over A 100+ yrs. of preaching, people still
veiw them as A cult.`
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RosePetal
Welcome makers mark hope you enjoy the board warts and all! The WT societies unwashed.
I don’t usually post myself but am using my wife Rosepetal’s profile to post this. Mr Bumble.
Many Jehovah’s witnesses past and present know very little or nothing about their own history, other than what they are told to read in the watchtower literature, such as the Proclaimers book, jw history. Although it’s right people should be allowed to listen to any organisation that claims it knows it’s own history, like most organisations the watchtower society is not immune to propaganda and jw’s should be allowed to recognised that. On the other hand it does not serve the interest of truth to listen to it’s opponents without proof to expose it’s misleading interpretation of the facts of it‘s own history.
Fortunately documental proofs are many which most jw’s are either unaware of, or simply too fearful to examine, being told that whatever information originating from the world is misleading, or if it comes from so called apostates is out right lies to be avoided with the threat of council and discipline.
All too often when jw’s are presented with evidence, usually on door to door work, any older doctrines presented as proofs of doctrinal error or failed predictions is immediately dismissed [ known or unknown to them] almost proudly stating “we do not believe that any more, it’s irrelevant we have new light”.[ I was a witness for over twenty five years, guilty as charged.]
Is old Doctrine still relevant today? It’s true the society of Russell’s religion bears very little resemblance to the religion of Rutherford, however there is a core element that remains the same.
As nugget so eloquently put it, the difference is problematic as the watchtower organisation claims it was chosen by God particularly after 1919 AD and it’s past doctrine should be held up high as proof of Gods choosing of them, not watered down, played down or of little importance today despite changes that have occurred due to failed predictions, or changes of internal politics. Any organisation stands or falls on it’s foundation. Denying it’s members the true undiluted history enables the watchtower society to keep control over many sincere individual who only want to serve God in spirit and truth, the watchtower has betrayed their misguided trust.