Factfinder: I hope my point is somehow being made clear!
Yes, you've explained the JW perspective very well! And if I were unclear on the JW view, that would be an excellent introduction. In this case, I know it well, and I've already rejected it on the basis of being too ludicrous to be anywhere close to truth.
We inherited sin and death from Adam and Eve.
And how is that just?
The wages sin pays is death. We die.
So my friend's unborn child had to pay for which sins exactly?
What Did Adam have before he sinned? The prospect of eternal life for him and his offspring. What did he do with it? Lost it by rebelling against God. Thus he could not pass it on to us, as he no longer had it.
I'll admit, the JW spin is clever at first glance. But there are too many unanswered questions precluding man's fall from grace. For example, I thought the punishment should fit the crime, though. Funny that Adam got one chance, no mercy, just death for him and his offspring, plus suffering for generations to come... yet, say, Peter denies his lord three times (among other sins), gets a pouty face from JC, and he only loses a little pride for himself.
I feel the whole concept is ridiculous if I don't being already believe that the Bible is the holy word of God. It's almost like you'd have to first just.. believe it as a kid somehow... and then try rationalize the irrational parts as an adult. You know?
What if there was another perfect human who did not sin? He'd get everlasting life. What if he had this- the right to everlasting life-same prospect Adam had- but chose to give it up for himself and allow it to be given to Adam's opffspring instead?
- If we're talking everlasting life in HEAVEN, what exactly did Jesus choose to "give up"? According to popular theology, Jesus is alive and well. The game was rigged with a little nepotism. He was reportedly out of commission for 3 days... not even a blink from the perspective of eternity, even if you count his time as a human. Sorry, no big sacrifice there. Sacrifice means you give something up. From what I understand the President and Vice President are still filling their respective roles, still as powerful as ever, and haven't given anything notable up.
- If we're talking everlasting life on EARTH, I'd like to pass along some a recent discovery: People still die.
But there could never be another perfect human. So God transfers the life of his Son Jesus to the womb of Mary and has Jesus born as a perfect human.
Why, again, didn't he just forgive... without all the strings attached? He could've set a really good example for the rest of us instead of acting jealous and petty.
Jesus stays faithful to God and has no sin.
You gotta admit, the game was a bit rigged in his favor, though, eh?
He now has the same prospect Adam had before he sinned. Everlasting life in the paradise earth.
No, Jesus had the prospect of getting crucified. Why would he have come down to this shit-hole on a mission to save us only to look around and go, "Hey, I kinda like it down here, minus the crown of thorns and those 12 whiney stalkers. Y'know, I might just stay forever!"
Jesus voluntarily gives that up and in his mercy God allows the offspring of Adam to have it.
So lemme get this straight: Jesus gave up the prospect for everlasting life on earth, voluntarily, and just settled for heaven.. or as the Cherubs call it, "Second-Best". And he did this just for us, so that WE could have everlasting life on earth. That's generous! But one problem: BAPTIZED FOLK DIE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
"In his mercy" - in this case - sounds like something cultists would say about their leader or an abused wife would say about her husband.
Thus, Jehovah can now resurrect Adam's dead offspring and apply to them the value of Jesus' sacrifice. In other words, God will let us have the everlasting life we would have inherited from Adam had he not thrown it away by sinning, by Jesus' voluntarily giving it up for us.
And the big production, ultimately set up to vindicate the big guy's right to rule and clear his good name of reproach, is complete. Otherwise, he could've, again, just discreetly forgiven us for being born sinful - the heinous crime that it is!
Perfect Adam no sin= everlasting life for him and his offspring
Perfect Jesus no sin=everlasting life-voluntarily given up for Adam's offspring.
Let's see, tonight you were working on Repetition for Emphasis.... I'm gonna go ahead and put you down for a "G".
Listen, I appreciate your sincerity and the time you put into that explanation, even though it's met with sarcasm. Honestly, I'm not angry at you or "god". I'm frustrated with... circumstances... specifically that religious belief controls so much of man's thinking and there's no easy solution to fix it.
