NeonMadman, we must be about the same age. I turned 18 in '71. I registratered, was 1-A. NEVER pioneered, but got brothers to write letters for me that I was involved and learning the ministry. I was notified that I would have a 'hearing.' Then the lottery came out, I think '71 was the first year for that. My # was high. 300+ Was reclassified 1-A-1. After that I never heard from the draft board again.
Older Guys: did you pioneer during 'Nam?
by compound complex 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Terry
The Watchtower Society back in the 1960's operated on two levels when it came to the Draft and Selective Service.
There was the Public and there was the Private.
They were at odds.
I was draft age in 1965. The Congregation Overseer and his assistant took me privately into the Kingdom Hall library and
spoke to me confidentially.
Brother Beard, of the Polytechnic congregation in Ft.Worth and Brother Coulter, his assistant had heard that I had received
my letter from the Selective Service in the mail. They wanted to lay down the "...way it really works."
"First you go before your local Draft Board. They will ask you questions to determine for themselves if you are sincere about your
religious beliefs or just trying to dodge the draft. They will confer after you leave and send their opinion off along with reccomendations.
What you say to them is very important. You want a 4-D classification. To get that you have to prove you really are a minister. The Society will not
give you a letter of reccomendation UNLESS YOU ARE A FULLTIME PIONEER."
"Next, the F.B.I. will come out to your house and interview you. They too are trying to determine if you are a draft dodger, a political enemy or just a real christian minister. They will write up their findings and send it along as well."
"Finally, you'll receive your draft card in the mail with their judgement as to what classification you should be. More than likely if you are NOT A FULL TIME PIONEER you will receive an I.O. this is a Conscientious Objector status."
"Eventually, you'll receive another letter in the mail telling you to report for your Military Health Inspection over in Dallas. They will determine your health status and declare you Fit for Service. This will be followed by NOTICE TO REPORT for Active Duty."
"This is where the rubber meets the road. You have to go along with them as far as you can go before you REFUSE."
"At the point you REFUSE TO BE INDUCTED the legal problems will begin."
"You will likely be arrested on your own recognisance. This means you are at liberty although technically under arrest. When the Trial Date
is determined you and your attorney will plead before a District Court Judge. He will set an actual Trial by Jury date or may sentence you
that very day."
At this point, I vividly recall their voices dropping down confidentially into a "stage whisper" as they conspiratorially instructed me!
"There have been brothers who have hired Hayden Covington to defend them in court and have lost. You really can't fight them successfuly."
"What you REALLY WANT THE JUDGE TO DO is sentence you to ALTERNATE SERVICE. As a Conscientious Objector the Judge has the option of sentencing you to Alternate Service which is usually working in a hospital as a non-combatant orderly......"
"If you get a letter BEFORE you go to court ordering alternate service in a hospital YOU CANNOT GO. You must refuse. When you refuse you'll be arrested and taken to prison."
At this point I was confused and asked for clarification. What they said made absolutely no sense to me, but, I didn't want to appear totally stupid and I eventually simply accepted what was said.
"You see, Brother Walstrom" the congregation overseer said, "being assigned is different from being sentenced."
Brother Coulter, the congregation assistant, took over at this point: "If you get the Judge to sentence you instead having the Selective Service assign you---you can work in the hospital with a CLEAN CONSCIENCE. Otherwise, you are serving in the Military EVEN THOUGH you are actually working in a hospital!"
In other words, they were telling me WHAT MY CONSCIENCE WAS! My "conscience" was splitting hairs!
If the Judge sentenced me to work in a hospital my CONSCIENCE was supposed to tell me it was okay.
If the Selective Service assigned me to work in a hospital my CONSCIENCE was supposed to tell me to refuse and go to prison as a witness.
Go figure. Non combatant is non combatant.
What most people do not understand is what the CHOICE consisted of back then.
The actual choice was not: go to war or go to prison.
The actual choice was : non-combatant alternate work in a hospital or go to prison.
Think about that!
I'll never forget the words of these brothers at the end of this advice session:
"Whatever you do, Brother Walstrom, DON'T TELL ANYBODY that we told you this. DON'T TELL ANYBODY that this is the policy of the Watchtower."
"If anybody asks you directly if somebody else has advised you tell them 'No!' that it is JUST YOUR CONSCIENCE. Otherwise the Society would be committing a crime like the brother did back in WWI."
Can you F*** believe that??!!!
I received my letter from the Selective Service ordering me to report to Terrell State Hospital in Austin in lieu of Military Service. This was my legal alternative as a non-combatant.
I did as the brothers advised me and refused.
I went before District Court Judge Leo Brewster and was sentenced to an Indeterminate Youth sentence not to exceed 6 years in Federal Prison.
I served in prison from 1967 to1969.
Nobody from my congregation ever came to visit me or wrote me a letter. Even my best friend only visited me twice.
When I was parolled in 1969 and returned to my local Kingdom Hall NOT ONE PERSON ever asked me how it was in Federal Prison!
They referred to my stint in incarceration as "college". They'd laugh and smile about it.
That is how it was.
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Violia
We married very young( teens) and they did try and draft hubby. The FBI even came to our door to talk to us. Hubby could not get ministers deferment. I got Pg and that solved our problems. He got a deferment right away. Otherwise he would have spent up to 2 yrs -maybe more in Segoville or Huntsville-forgot now which one it was.
Hubby feels bad now, wishes he had gone to Nam.
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Nickolas
I served in prison from 1967 to1969.
Wow. Quite the experience, Terry.
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compound complex
Thank you, fellow-guided-by-Bible-trained-conscience ministers ...
I had no idea as to the above WT rigmarole since I went directly from college to JW to pioneer to 4-D status.
Despite what we now know regarding the real "truth," I still have to admire what you brothers endured in the "college" not of your choice!
Thanks for taking the time to relate your experiences.
CC
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nancy drew
not being an older guy, however having graduated from high school in 67 vietnam was pivotal in my life and I'm always curious how others dealt with it. I was in college late 60's not a witness but definately a campus radical participating in many an anti-war protest. It was a traumatic time for many and to this day it still affects me.
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Giordano
I also remember (reading here or on freeminds.org) that if you left Bethel before your time was up, or for some other infraction, you couldn't pioneer for 6 months. Apparently when the draft ended a lot of bethelites left.
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jam
I was in Nam 1967-1968, of course I wasn,t A JW, my sister was
working on my wife while I was in Nam (bible study).
I new A brother, A elder that served in prison and he told
me he regretted it. The biggest mistake he had made in his life.
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compound complex
Thanks, Nancy, Giordano, Jam:
Yes, a traumatic time even if we didn't see "action."
So sorry for you who had to endure the horrors of war (or for your anxious loved ones back home) or prison. I now recall having read Terry's story in The Freeminds Journal. Likewise, a friend took his "stand" when unbaptized, went to prison and eventually got baptized while in prison. No one ever commended him, visited him, spoke of it when he was released. I guess I'd forgotten this information on the fringes of my mind, or what's left of it.
Was this so-called neutrality and bold stand for the "Truth" actually for the glory of Jehovah?
Grateful for you participation,
CC
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im stuck in
Yes I pioneered through the Vietnam war. As has been said it was the only way to get a 4D. It was a real pia but at the time I was very much a beleiver and would have done anything for them. stuck in