Older Guys: did you pioneer during 'Nam?

by compound complex 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  blondie

  I am not an older guy but I am have several family members that were affected by the draft.

  1) Regular pioneer got a 4-D

  2) 2 who despite being regular pioneers were sent to prison for 2 years each.

  3) 1 who was sentenced to working in a hospital

  The 2 who were in prison were visited regularly by friends and family and were asked some about their experience in prison.

  4) One who was sentenced to prison during the Korean War and later petitioned to have their status in prison removed.

  5) One who was sentenced to Sandstone during WW2 but was sentenced to work outside planting pine trees.

  Those who went to prison had a crime against their name and could not get some employment.
• 

  compound complex

  Thanks, im stuck in and Blondie, for sharing your personal experiences and those of brothers you knew. I appreciate your broadening this out, Blondie, with circumstances involving JW men during "conflicts" other than that of Viet Nam.

  Gratefully,

  CC
• 

  White Dove

  Well, my dad was 18 in 1960.

  Married my mom in '66.

  Had me in '68.

  I'm getting a picture here.
• 

  Lunatic Faith

  My dad got the 4D status during the Korean War. He was pioneering full time. Another brother in his cong was draft age and my dad told him he needed to regular pioneer but the brother didn't want to and he ended up in prison when his draft came through.

  So it sounds like not a lot changed betweent the Vietnam and Korean wars.
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Yeah, I was in Laos and Cambodia, eatin' snakes and leaving Watchtower and Awake! magazines in laundromats.

  No, not really. I pioneered in NYC and was an MS. My draft board gave me my ministerial deferment because I was a bit more articulate than others my age. I didn't expect to be defered - I expected to go to prison, and it bothers me a bit (not a bunch, but a bit) that gus who were no less sincere than I and no less articulate did not get their deferments. Each Draft Board was different. Mine were pretty liberal, I suppose.
• 

  Terry

  When I look back on that period in my life it makes me very sad that I didn't fully realize that my so-called "Brothers" and "Sisters" didn't give a shit about me personally. In fact, they didn't even THINK about me as a person.

  We were like pieces on a game board.

  Somebody else was playing a game. We just marked who was winning and losing.

  We weren't even fully human!

  God, that makes me mad!!
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Terry said, "We were like pieces on a game board. Somebody else was playing a game. We just marked who was winning and losing."

  WE were pawns, of course - those before us for Rutherford and we for Knorr, no argument here.

  But through the years I've worked with a bunch of guys who were in 'Nam, and they feel precisely the same way, except that they can name the game-player in their case - Robert Strange McNamara, US Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson. Lots of guys were very pleased when he died in 2009, and cursed him in his dying (as we now curse the WTB&TS leadership when they die).

  There have been times I've thought that if I had it to do over again, I'd join the military rather than pioneer.

  How many of you old guys remember this group? They were not Dubs.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2MiODsMY30

  "Beaucoup dinky dao Dubs"
• 

  mrsjones5

  I'm getting a picture here.

  I'm beginning to see a pattern too White Dove:

  My parents married in 1962 (Dad 21, Mom 18)

  I was born in 1965

  Dad got baptised in1968

  Dad didn't go to 'Nam
• 

  DesirousOfChange

  "What you REALLY WANT THE JUDGE TO DO is sentence you to ALTERNATE SERVICE. As a Conscientious Objector the Judge has the option of sentencing you to Alternate Service which is usually working in a hospital as a non-combatant orderly......"

  "If you get a letter BEFORE you go to court ordering alternate service in a hospital YOU CANNOT GO. You must refuse. When you refuse you'll be arrested and taken to prison."

  This is the kinda stuff that is BS. It is supposed to be about your HEARTFELT "intent", but it isn't. It's faked intent.

  I WANT to do Alternative Service but I have to SAY that I REFUSE to do Alternative Service but HOPE that they MAKE me do Alternative Service.
• 

  Terry

  When something is rigged and the players know the game is rigged they are, in effect, distorting reality to obtain an outcome.

  My indoctrination presented me with an opportunity to DISPLAY PUBLICLY as a "witness" what pure faith and neutrality was among

  Jehovah's peaceful people.

  In reality, however, I was being used as a Public Relations pawn to sell an idea as a poster boy.

  How many times have you heard non-JW's remark how dedicated and hard-working "those people are."?

  Shlepping magazines and books, going to prison, refusing blood, not pledging allegience, refusing to celebrate holidays: PUBLIC RELATIONS.

  We now know the distortion in so-called JW neutrality.

  The heirarchy was allowing brothers in Mexico to obtain the very thing brothers in Malawi were dying to avoid.

  The United Nations would become a F**K buddy for the Governing Body.

  Crazy coots like Fred Franz could embarass the entire doctrine of End Times by predicting a non-event in 1975 and declaring it "significant"

  then, go on to become the next President of the Society.

  All distortions of reality.