Skeeter1, using Unthanks own website to validate is work is circular reasoning. "Does Unthank know what he is doing? Let's look at his website to see what he say"
Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia
by AndersonsInfo 147 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
-
-
skeeter1
People, including me, were asking why Mr. Unthank wrote his piece the way he did. Why did he use Jehovah, why did he think he could personally bring a case, why not the police bring the case? So, I went to the horses mouth, Mr. Unthank's webpage. I saw he changed it to make it more understandable. I also saw that he answered some of the poster's questions about why Mr. Unthank chose his means. So, I reposted his answers to our questions. That is not circular reasoning.
I think you misunderstood me if you think I was trying to authenticate the merits of his case, projecting whether it will win or lose, based on his words. Skeeter, Steve, nor Entirely Possible has not crystal ball. It may not have a snowball's chance in hell at winning. It may win all the way to the top. I think it has a better chance at winning the clearer and more consise he presents his words. Our Congress passes, without exactly reading, huge law bills. This is based on the perception of the people presenting the bill. If they are seen as trustworthy, then congressmen have trusted the legisislation. The main thing is not to come off as a religious nutcake, and we all chimed in, and the website appears to have been cleaned up. I think it has a much better presentation.
So, I wish Mr. Unthank that best as he goes on to fight his battles. It's best to have constructive critisism from friends first, then to get it on the enemy lines. I hope we are not turning into enemy lines.
Skeeter
-
steve2
Politicians quickly learn once in office that nutcases are a dime a dozen (i.e., people who are totally driven to pursue a specific cause and who use hyperbole to state their case such as "I speak on behalf of the Lord Almighty, etc.etc").
Honestly, people, Steve Unthank's main contribution to the tsunami of hate directed at the Watchtower Society may in fact be to shore up the JWs faith in the Watchtower. Duh!
There is an extremely thin line between opening people's eyes to a claimed injustice (as Mr Unthank appears to be doing) and unintentionally creating a backlash of support for the targeted group (which Mr Unthank has a pretty good chance of doing). When posters say that Mr Unthank may be going about it the wrong way but at least he'll get the media interested, they sound as if any publicity is "good" if it exposes the Watchtower. The flip side is, this is the very thing that makes a beleaguered group feel "special" and persecuted. JWs may be saying, "thank you Mr Unthank for showing Australians and the world what a nutcase you are". On this sorry point, I would find myself in unexpected agreement with the witnesses.
-
punkofnice
10. to issue a worldwide public apology to mankind, and to Jesus Christ, and to JEHOVAH GOD for our “sins” and actions as religious leaders." Time will tell but an apology would be a first!
-
skeeter1
Steve has a good point on the viewpoint by persecuted JWs. Everything is persecution to them and will be viewed as such! Can't help the diehard out.
But, we can help those who are getting out and those who are thinking of joining. We all have a different communication style, this is true. Some of us are rude, some are Jesus freaks, some are gay, some are left, and some are right. We are all judgemental ex-Jehovah's Witnesses. However, It seems like our comments are being taken constructively, as Mr. Unthank appears to have soften his rhetoric. I think it was a good idea to run this by the ex-JW community. Many eyes are better than one pair. I have never written something, that someone else didn't edit better.
I disagree with you that there is a "tsuanami of hate" against the Watch Tower. Hate implies there is no rational reason, but pure emotion. I don't think apostates purely hold raw hate agasint the Watch Tower, but they do strongly disagree with many of the tenants and control tactics. Apostates come to an informed disagreement, an intellectual understanding of the leader's dishonesty & hypocrisy. But to say that apostates are purely angry and hateful is to invalidate the honest arguments they hold against the Watch Tower. And, for a few, it may include the brazen conduct of its leaders to ignore this widely accepted Austrailian law.
As for Ms. Anderson's conduct in reporting this story...I am going to imagine myself in her shoes. She has put herself and her family on the line. She is not a cowardly poster, who hides behind an avatar as I do. She is, like it or not, famous. If I was Mr. Unthank and had this story....I would have been in contact with Ms. Anderson and Bill Bowan. Both are in the forefront of JW child abuse. Ms. Anderson likely knows about the story and the webpage going up, and she reports that this is out there. Just because you don't like the message, isn't reason to attack the messenger.
Skeeter
-
AndersonsInfo
On a personal note, Joe and I believe that Steve2 is entitled to his opinion as we all are. He has made some good points, but so have many others. Until the dust settles, we're keeping an open mind and refuse to be influenced by anybody's personal opinions. As more pertinent information comes out, it appears that Mr. Unthank's blog-site is the place where he's putting it so we'll look there as often as possible. http://www.jwnews.net.
Thank you skeeter 1 for bringing over to JWN Mr. Unthank's replies to questions asked by many posters about his Submission and why he wrote it the way he did. His explanation was helpful.
Certainly, we hope that what Mr. Unthank is doing will not "unintentionally" create a "backlash" of support for the targeted group or that his actions cause "a beleaguered group feel 'special' and persecuted." Maybe Mr. Unthank will discuss this point on his blog-site too.
Joe and I are like everybody else here -- We want to know more about any present reverberations, if any, from this Criminal Charge and future Indictment, if that should happen against our least favorite corporation, the Watch Tower of PA and its corporate entity in Australia.
Mr. Unthank explains on his blog that what he's doing is for the protection of 2,500 children of JWs in Victoria. His reason was my reason for taking a stand against the WT to help protect the kids of JWs including my own grandchild from JW pedophiles, so I have empathy for him now at this time. From reading the 664-page Submission, both Mr. Unthank and his brother were child sexual abuse victims of an elder by the name of Taylor who still is in good standing within the Watch Tower organization. His frustration with Watch Tower leaders and with the authorities to have justice done is apparently the catalyst for Mr. Unthank's actions now as he doesn't want what happened to him and his brother to happen to any other JW kids.
Barbara
-
AndersonsInfo
I found the following letter to the Australian Prime Minister that Mr. Unthank sent last year extremely informative, especially about a ban on the Watch Tower Corporation would not be a ban on JWs. Read it for yourself after the word, "NOTE"" (I put the information in bold so it's easier to find but the rest of the letter is exactly as it was written.)
LETTER TO PRIME MINISTER
16 October 2010
The Honourable Julia Gillard,
Prime Minister of Australia.
Prime Minister Gillard,
This is a formal letter submitted on behalf of all peoples of good will for the purpose of seeking protection for our children.
The issuing of this letter has become necessary due to the fact that Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia and its parent organisation Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. (being part of the committee of management for the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Australia) have been engaging in the committing ofongoing indictable criminal breaches of child protections laws across the length and breadth of Australia.
Within the State of Victoria alone this has amounted to over 6 millionINDICTABLE CRIMINAL OFFENCES against children since 1 July 2008 by their refusing to comply with basic mandatory minimum child protection laws as legislated within the Victorian Working with Children Act 2005 for “religious organisations”.
Each offence carries up to 2 years imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $132,144.00 per “an offence”. This amounts to over $800 Billion dollars in potential fines.
Victoria Police and the State Government of Victoria are aware of this and have chosen to protect Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia and its parent organisation Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. over and above the children within the Victorian community. This is unlawful according to Section 38 (1) of the Victorian Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 and a violation of these children’s human rights.
Source: See pages XX and XX of the attached document titled “To the Commonwealth of Australia…” which contains a document titled “To the Supreme Court of Victoria, A Submission for the Protection of the Children, Families and Members of the Religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the State of Victoria”.
Every single day of inaction results in at least another 5,000 to 8,000 individual INDICTABLE CRIMINAL OFFENCES being committed by the Watch Tower Society against children alone. This is preventable.
It is hereby requested that:
- An immediate Order-in-Counsel be granted declaring the corporation Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia and its parent organisation Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. to be criminal organisations; and
- An immediate Order-in-Counsel be granted banning the corporation Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia and its parent organisation Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. from operating or continuing to operate within the Commonwealth of Australia and its territories.
With reference to the document “To the Commonwealth of Australia…” which contains a document titled “To The Supreme Court of Victoria, A Submission for the Protection of the Children, Families and Members of the Religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the State of Victoria”, it is hereby requested that:
- Caveats be put on all properties owned by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia and its parent organisation Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. within the Commonwealth of Australia and its territories; and
- A Court Order be sought for the purpose of freezing all assets owned by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia within the Commonwealth of Australia and its territories; and
- A Court Order be sought for the purpose of freezing all offshore assets owned by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia; and
- A Court Order be sought for the purpose of freezing all assets owned by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. within the Commonwealth of Australia and its territories; and
- A Court Order be sought within the United States of America for the purpose of freezing all assets owned by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. and any subsidiary corporations, including but not limited to Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
NOTE: Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia, while it is classified as a “religious organisation” it is in fact not a religion but is a corporation subject to and operated under the Australian Corporations Act 2001.
Section 116 of the Australian Constitution (free exercise of religion) does not apply to corporations and their activities or to their directors and officers when acting in the capacity of directors and officers of a corporation.
An Order-in-Counsel banning the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia IS NOT a ban on the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses of which members are indeed protected by Section 116 of the Australian Constitution.
No action is being requested against the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, of which said religion is a subsidiary of Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc.…
In the Sunday Herald Sun newspaper of September 20, 2009, Mr. Eddie McGuire, in his Focus column wrote concerning those who commit criminal offences against children:
“Now it’s time for our politicians to do what I believe most of them entered politics to do in the first place—make the place better. Long after the branch stacking and back-room machinations, real leaders reflect on their legacy. The old line that “the biggest person is the one who bends to help a child” rings true . . . Australians are slow to move sometimes, but when the time comes, when the people and the leaders of our community say “enough is enough”, then it is amazing how quickly things can turn around.”
The time has come. Enough is enough.
As a member of our community I stood up, along with members of my family, to protect our own children, the children within the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the children within the State of Victoria. We took the action needed on behalf of every child and their parents and on behalf of every member of the community and on behalf of the religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses. For doing this the Watch Tower Society threatened our family with extreme harm and detriment and then actually tried to wipe us out.
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
Accompanied with this letter is a 332 page document titled “To the Commonwealth of Australia…” which contains a document titled “To The Supreme Court of Victoria, A Submission for the Protection of the Children, Families and Members of the Religion of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the State of Victoria” and of which said document outlines the criminal activities of Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia and Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Inc. et. al. and the lengths they have gone to in carrying out their criminal activities, not only in relation to the threat to wipe out my family, but also to “further their oppressive schemes against the people and to sustain and screen their unlawful operations”.
…
Yours faithfully,
Steven John Unthank
50 Victoria Street
Toongabbie Victoria 3856
-
kjw53
9 countries have allready done away with all organized religion recently according to cnn about 2 weeks ago before the show about the occurences in murfreesboro was on. Yes it is very real it is coming.
-
kjw53
ldrnomo--- Unfortunatly for this blind world, when satan leads every kingdom( govt,armies,supporters ) against God at Harmageddon, For the man made word patriotism the blind ones will be on the wrong side. Oh, did your teachers forget to mention that to you-they have only had 1750 years to see it.
-
skeeter1
Jiyuu2, thanks. I apologize if I came across as calling Mr. Unthank a nut. I was referring to the way other posters called him that. I agree with you that the WTS knows every legal trick in the book and, then, can buy the best legal minds for the tricks they don't know.