by Terry 111 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
bohn
Changing the definition of God, is exactly the same as saying he doesn't exist, which is unknowable. However, God is knowable and is commonly known by many.
On another note: Are your local judges psychopaths? In your opinion, when is judgment Ok and when is it not? Is judgment Ok only when YOU agree with it? What credentials do you posess to warrant such a posit of authority within yourself?
Penny, try to put that argument in a deductive form, right now its just a soup of words and assertions and i got no idea what you assume is true, what you define to be true and what you think you have evidence for.
You claim God is knowable, and apparently only a good God would ever be knowable. Why is that so? What makes a particular God "knowable", is it that people hear it as a voice in their head? i mean is that really your criteria?
In which case, that would make thousands of gods (some evil, some indifferent, most "good" but with different values than your god) knowable, but i bet you have a double-standard in place to deal with that.
i never said all judges was psychopats. But a judge who would order torture for all eternity for a thought-crime is a psychopat. I doubt you will challenge that claim, but rather try to install a new double standard to "fix" it...
The only way to "gno" God is to get mystical.....and know your metaphysical science.....
1108. gnosis gno'-sis from 1097; knowing (the act), i.e. (by implication) knowledge:--knowledge, science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosis
Gnosis (from one of the Greek words for knowledge, γν?σις) is the spiritual knowledge of a saint [1] or mystically enlightened human being. Within the cultures of the term's provenance (Byzantine and Hellenic) Gnosis was a knowledge or insight into the infinite, divine and uncreated in all and above all, [2] rather than knowledge strictly into the finite, natural or material world. [3] Gnosis is a transcendental as well as mature understanding. [4] It indicates direct spiritual experiential knowledge [5] and intuitive knowledge, mystic rather than that from rational or reasoned thinking. Gnosis itself is obtained through understanding at which one can arrive via inner experience or contemplation such as an internal epiphany of intuition and external epiphany such as the Theophany.
Flap all you want guys. The logic in my last post is unanswerable. An All-Good God must judge. Illusion is the ONLY alternative to such a self-evident reality without Jesus.
Listen carefully, Perry. I was not saying that God will not judge, nor am I saying he will. But if he does, it is not up to YOU to jump the gun. Leave the judgment to your saviour.
I've known Jesus and you are no Jesus, so quit acting like you are. And get off Satanus' rear end.
Does God play favorites?
Is this just?
Aww Robdar, it is so cute when you try to shame others into silence.
FYI, If Satanus asks me a question I will answer if I choose to - irregardless of your opinion. And so will anyone else on this board. It is called freedom Robdar. Stop bullying others.
So,
Robdar since you obviously want attention. What is your basis for securing a favorable judgment from God (assuming there is one as you allow for) ?
Terry,
Do you have favorites? Of course we all do. But justice is different. It should be blind and should be the same for all. We've had this discussion before.
The problem with your silly idea is that your god does not judge after a moral standard any sane person would consider fair. and to that you allways answer with a variation of this:
"but GOD is GOOD by DEFINITION. you cant judge GOD without BEING GOD"
which is a false dilemma ... well actually its not even a false dilemma since you are just willing to consider one option.
Sane you say? Like the judgement another poster here just made indicating that fatal force isn't justified when a police officer is shot? The definition of God is fixed by the hundreds of millions of people who have known his goodness. You do not know God's goodness so you try desperately to use another definition.
Moral standard you talk about - all relative nonsense without an All-Good creator.
Hell is unlikely or immoral? Just the opposite. It just is. Good is unlikely without God. Which is the default? Taken a look around the universe lately?
This an actual picture of the surface of Venus: About 900 degrees F , 464 C.
Compare to:
The bible says that ALL good gifts come from above. Cool water, luscious fruit, good friends, family, art, love .... all gifts of God whether you are a believer or not, whether you recognise it or not. When people want separation from God, and he finally gives them what they want, they experience an absence of all of these things.... not because the default condition of the universe is good, but because the absence of God is the elimination of all that can possibly be good.
It can be no other way. Since God consumes sin by his nature, the unredeemed must be somehow apart from him, and hence experience all that can possibly be lacking from that which is good... for eternity.
Perry: " The definition of God is fixed by the hundreds of millions of people who have know his goodness."
In other words, you know god is good because of popular vote? or is it because he is speaking to you specifically? try to put it into a deductive argument like this:
or like this:
but i dont want to put words in your mouth, im curious what you come up with.
Moral standard you talk about - all nonsense without an All-Good creator.
well no. essentially i recognize i want to live in a society and my fellow humans have value and go from there, ofcourse if you think these things are unjustified assumptions the voices in your head (or where they are) are the least of your concern.
And as i described on page 3 (Which you conveniently evaded) the moral system you promote is essentially that of a psychopat. Not that i think you are by far, but your basis for morals (ask God and what he want us to do is good) is totally bunk.
by the way, posting a picture of venus is absolutely irrelevant. Yes i would die on venus. so what? Where do you go from that to "it is moral for good to torture a person forever for a thought-crime"? try to put that in a deductive form, i could use a laugh.
bohn,
You are welcome to believe whatever you want. I don't have a problem with that.
God shows up in a person's spirit upon regeneration through Jesus. You can't change that. It is a fact testified to by many millions of people.
Your testimony is that you don't have one, and nobody is going to make you have one. I'm cool with that too.
Perry, so it is this?:
your argument is so embarrasing you are not only not willing to defend it, it cannot even be put in closed deductive form...
