Even as a man in the JW's, this degradation of women always bugged me.
May 15th WT - Wives Should be Obedient, Submissive & Not Disagree
by flipper 70 Replies latest jw friends
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rebel8
I am so thankful for Jehovah's loving counsel, proper food at the proper time! Just yesterday I saw an older sister mockingly laughing at her husband after he farted while carrying the mikes in the Hall. Granted, his fart was amplified by the microphone--he tends to be a bit clumsy--but that didn't seem like proper submission to me. (link)
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Reopened Mind
I was so naive when I was a younger Witness. One of the things that attracted me to the JWs in the first place was that they would (supposedly) change their understanding of scripture as new light became available. But unfortunately I had no idea how this worked. So I kept waiting for new light on the treatment of women. Surely they would see that we women could be a valuable asset to the congregation. And that we too had valid ideas and concerns. Eve was created equal to Adam. The first person Jesus revealed his messiahship to was the Samaritan woman. And who was it that was the first to know that Jesus was resurrected? IT WAS WOMEN! Other women too played a vital role in the early church. So I waited and I waited. Years. At pioneer school we were told that because we had three heads, Jehovah, Jesus, and our husbands, we had three layers of protection. Well I have earned the living, I have managed the household finances. I have proven myself just capable as any man. I dare say more so than many. I have had to deal with a husband who was deeply traumatized by being raised in this cult.
I quit waiting. I now know that the WT is a dictatorial, rule by decree, good old boys club that isn't about to change. So I changed. I reopened my mind to the reality that if there was going to be any changes I would have to make them for myself.
TotallyADD and myself are in a marriage that is far better now that the WT is not meddling. We decide and we are the only ones who decide what is best for us. We have much more respect for each other. We are far more cooperative together. And we relax and enjoy each other's company more.
Should women be obedient? Not blindly. We cooperate when we understand the reasons. And we are glad to do so.
Submissive? Submissiveness for the sake of being submissive is never a good idea. It only builds resentment due to the imbalance of power.
Not Disagree? I wholeheartedly DISAGREE! We women must speak up when we feel our husbands are making the wrong decision. We need to talk it over in a respectful way until we can both agree.
Respectfully,
Reopened Mind
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unshackled
Good post Flipper. That article is sickening. They're really laying it on heavy.
"The great unmentionable evil at the center of our culture is monotheism. From a barbaric Bronze Age text known as the Old Testament, three anti-human religions have evolved — Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These are sky-god religions. They are, literally, patriarchal — God is the Omnipotent Father — hence the loathing of women for 2,000 years in those countries afflicted by the sky-god and his earthly male delegates."
– Gore Vidal
Women should be proud they didn't write one single line in the Bible. Why they continue to support the very means that suppresses them is beyond me. -
FlyingHighNow
Something interesting. My jw husband divorced me because I could not live up to that "jw ideal wife." He thought he'd find one who could. If a jw wife never has her own opinions or disagrees with a man, he never has to communicate or work to understand his family or get along with them. Really easy sailing for a man if a JW wife is "obedient."
Now my ex husband tells everyone how much he respects me. He told my nephew this week that I was a good mother. He doesn't date. Doesn't have a wife. We've been separated and divorced for ten years now. My daughter just spoke with him, her step father, for the first time since 2003. He broke down crying, begging her to move down there and she and her son Julian move into the house he is building, with him. He said he would put a mobile home out in the yard for me. He wants to be sure I am secure and not heartbroken if they move down there.
My nephew made a video of my life in pictures and posted it on youtube. My son says my ex watches it over and over again and cries. Says he misses the "good times."
I'm shaking my head.
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flipper
Wow ! So many fantastic replies ! Thanks for sharing your views . I'm a little under the weather tonight so I'll answer pg. 1 repliers first .
HIGHLANDER- I agree . It would seem in this 21st century with equal rights and women insisting on equal value that JW women would not stand for mistreatment. But I feel we can never underestimate the power that fear plays in these women being dominated through mind control of the WT society. They are actually told that if they DO NOT show submission- it's disobeying God - then they'll die at Armageddon. Fear sadly is a pretty successful control tactic ALL cults use - including Jehovah's Witnesses.
RETROVIRUS- I hear you my friend. I noticed this many times when I was a JW that the women were a hell of a lot smarter and earned more income than their husbands. Then when the marriage would break up - the wife would struggle to make ends meet due to a negligent ex-husband. One thing I'm proud of is that I NEVER missed one child support payment in 8 years of paying to my JW ex-wife while we shared custody of our teenage children. I know lots of men who didn't do that. I'm sorry you went through your stress with a irresponsible ex-husband.
LADY LEE- I saw so many JW ladies like yourself when we were Witnesses. Sometimes I felt like walking up to some men at the kingdom hall and knocking their lights out for how they treated their wives or children. It was embarrassing to see the disrespectful attitudes among some husbands. I'm glad you got out of your abusive marriage and found real happiness. I'm happy for you.
JEAN-LUC PICARD- Exactly what you say is true. My older JW sister was told to " wait on Jehovah " while her abusive JW husband cheated on her with women at the kingdom hall, abused dangerous drugs, beat her to a pulp so badly it damaged her sex organs permanently. The elders advice ? They told my sister " You must be doing something that upsets him. You aren't being submissive enough ! " Unbelievable !
WHATWASITHINKING- Wow. What an incredible experience. The elders actually told this sister that she hould give up her $ 75,000 a year job so as not to make her husband feel inferior ? How insulting to the lady ! AND that she was married to such a weak husband .
WATERSPROUT- It's too bad your husband was looked down upon for reating you as an equal ! It probably showed up the elders who were treating their wives like crap. Thus the cutting comments. I'm glad you and your husband have a good, caring, equal relationship . Good for you. Keep it up.
SKEETER- That's interesting that your female JW relative said she'd never marry a JW man. Smart girl. Good for her.
NUGGET- You make a really good point that shouldn't be lost in all of this. By JW husbands treating their wives this way- what does it teach young females growing up ? It teaches them to accept abuse by men, physical, emotional, and mental. It's abhorrent.
STUCKINLIMBO- Well, don't put yourself down too much. We ALL took issues with us after exiting the JW cult. Many have sought professional counseling if needed to help them move on. Hang in there friend.
ROOM 215- It IS " shut up and listen " for most JW's - but especially for women and children - so true. Sick.
TOTALLY ADD- That is good that you spoke up to that Bethelite to get him to be more caring and respectful to his wife. Some guys need a good shock to their systems - and some find out they were treating their wives badly- only when it's too late and their wives have left them ! Yes I saw the Stepford Wives movie- very accurate depiction of how JW wives act and are treated.
BLONDIE- Thanks for that article and link about the nutcase running that Bible church. Incredible. I believe that cult mind control is alive and active in influencing these women to stay with and tolerate abusive jerks like this guy. The power of mind control is SO dangerous !
METATRON- Exactly what you say is true. Like how the Libyan government thugs whisked away that young lady who was raped trying to get her to go back on her story in public ! Did they harm her ? Or did she get back and keep her freedom to speak out ? Male oppression of females is SUCH a huge problem worldwide AND in this country that people need to speak out against it.
DINAH- Exactly. Articles like this really fan the flames of oppression and abuse of women and children indeed. Sick.
SIR 82- Yep. Definitely a man writing this drivel.
WT WIZARD- You make really good points about how women usually know more about prices and the economy to assist their amilies than men do. Women tend to be more detail oriented. Many men couldn't be bothered. So it IS a communication breakdown between men and women for sure. Good points.
MAD SWEENEY- Definitely a snare and a racket.
ANN O' MALLY- I remember that picture from the Stepford movie. Eerie I'll be back to answer pg. 2 in awhile.
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Snoozy
In watching 20/20 tonight about the IFB church (Baptist) and their views on women the JW's almost look like saints. One minister got up in front of the audience and loudly criticized all women for not keeping themselves in shape for "Their Man" and they should strive to be what they were when they "caught" their man.
In answering the question when will women be allowed to speak in the congregation? When hell freezes over..I was in shock as was my daughter and her husband watching it at her house.
Her comment was "I can't believe how much alike they and the JW's are!"
Snoozy
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FlyingHighNow
Flipper, I was posting mine as you were writing yours. They crossed in the night. Be sure to read it, it's just above yours.
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daringhart13
They say that stuff......but you're delusional if you think that women don't run the congregation.
I've NEVER been in a congregation or served on any level where the women weren't dragging their husbands around by their noses. The WORST were elders wives. Some of them flat out made jokes about never having sex and "to bad for him"...... some of the worst women I've ever known.
So ....yes....this is mysogynist council......but as someone that served for 17 years.... you can forget telling me these women are subservient.... they are the epitome of bad women.
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mrsjones5
My nephew made a video of my life in pictures and posted it on youtube. My son says my ex watches it over and over again and cries. Says he misses the "good times."
I'm shaking my head.
He cries cuz he knows he messed up, not you FHN