Djeggnog, you said the JW consider a creation day to be longer that 7000 years. How about 1.900.000.000? This is certainly longer and closer to the age of the Universe as measured by scientists...if Satan has not tampered with their gadgets....
Do JWs still believe in 1914?
by Iamallcool 125 Replies latest members private
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Anony Mous
@djeggnog: You are definitely not keeping up to date with the current WTBTS doctrine. You are wrong on many counts and are stuck in their 80's-90's doctrine, go read your most recent pubs to see what the length of a creation day is. You're also mixing up your dates and your facts. JW's do indeed claim that they were chosen from among the rest of Christianity and that Jesus did an inspection between 1914 and 1919 (the date which they got out of prison for sedition, not because of religious persecution as they sometimes claim) when Rutherford believed he and LATER by extension the GB was chosen by God to lead the WTBTS. No biblical proof other than 'this is a fulfillment of prophecy so-and-so' is ever claimed. 1935 is when they indeed identified the 'Great Crowd' as there were more than 144,000 followers and they said until recently that then their number was sealed. As far as 1975 goes, the WTBTS even published a half-assed apology for it, they definitely implied it and it was as much as gospel when it was said on the stage. There is even a book published by the WTBTS from back then that has now all but disappeared out of their libraries and is not available on the Watchtower Library that shows the calculation to which they showed around 1975 would be the end. "This generation" has changed meaning different times in WTBTS eschatology as you may well know and as you also can read in WT publication has been used several times to calculate an absolute end from 1914 onwards. When Jesus said those words, they came true in Jerusalem as 'this generation' in all meanings (classic and extended) given to it did NOT pass away by the destruction of Jerusalem. However if JW's believe that 1914 is the beginning of 'This Generation', then where is the end of 'This Generation'?
Do JWs still believe in 1914: No. Most Witnesses don't even know how to explain it (as djeggnog shows).
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Mary
djeggnog said: We all have choices and so it is to them that I am preaching.
Hope you got your 30 hours in before The End comes egghead!
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Vanderhoven7
Yes, 1914 is still gospel to Jehovah's Witnesses. If you reject 1914 and the events of 1918, and 1919 alleged by the WTS, and are alive when Armageddon hits, you will be destroyed forever. However, if you die before Armageddon, you will probably have a resurrection and a chance to survive. So if you are not a JW, pray for an early demise.
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poopsiecakes
What is so "painfully obvious" to me is that you are one of those to whom the apostle Peter was referring.
Yup, you're a JW alright. Judgmental and unwilling to think. Sadly, I used to be like that too. But remember this, you've been exposed to many many people here who have shown you the errors in your beliefs and whether you like it or not your brain is working it out. Stop fighting it already and realize that you've been lied to so that you can really start living. There's no shame in admitting it.
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yadda yadda 2
I'm sure eggnog is counting time on here. An 'apostate website' pioneer? He is very disobedient visiting apostate websites. It is only a matter of time before his conviction in many of the JW's absurd and unscriptural speculative creeds disintegrates. Apostate websites will always do what they do: destroy your faith in the organisation and its leadership. But keep trying eggnog, it keeps us apostates sharp.
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Mary
Egghead, if you put this video on Facebook, you can count lots more hours and everyone who views it as a Return Visit:
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andrekish
Hi Morbidzbaby.
My sincerest apologies if anything I said in previous post on this topic re not wanting to live next door to a soldier or politician caused offense or concern to you.
Having read your post about your new boyfriend being ex-forces and being more protective of you may I wish you all the very best for the future. People who carry weapons scare me as I never know what they are going to use them for, and under whose orders. It seems that most humans born and bred in the UK have a natural distaste for firearms and they are available only under great restriction when a clear need can be proven.
There are many posts on this site suggesting that Jehovah's Witnesses blindly follow orders and there appear to be many here who have been badly affected by their involvement with this organisation. I have personally met a few people who have left the organisation very disaffected and I have great difficulty understanding disfellowship from any group. This doesn't feel good in the heart. However, this clearly isn't unique to Witnesses, and is across the board in most faiths.
However, most Witnesses I know have very sound reasoning for their use of the year 1914 and I too, even as an observer, find their arguements compelling and very well thought out considering the amazing amount of personal study I have seen each Witness dedicate themself to.
Jehovah's Witnesses seem to know their subject and their Bibles very intimately.
I still think that djeggnog has put forward a very sound arguement and has very sound reasoning for this. This is not said to raise djeggnog up high, as probably djeggnog doesn't want that anyway. I say this in support of Christ and Daniel, who Jesus quoted. I certainly have to admit that as one of Jehovah's Witnesses djeggnog certainly has access to some highly technical information which I have never been made aware of elsewhere. Having been raised as a Catholic and having been through the LDS (Mormon) hierarchy I can definitively state that here we were taught nothing about Daniel except something about a lions' den, (I can still recall colouring in a lovely bright green lion at sunday school).
The main problem I see here is that none of us were around when all this stuff was first written and proving any dates is a bit of a nightmare and can walk us up the wrong alleys.
But it is absolutley clear to me: Jehovah's Witnesses do believe that 1914 was highly significant and whether anyone agrees with them or not they appear to have good reason for their beliefs. This world would certainly be less well informed without the Witnesses.
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Morbidzbaby
@ andrekish No worries, I get a little defensive when it comes to comparing JW's with others and elevating them above certain genres of people when it is quite undeserved.
However, most Witnesses I know have very sound reasoning for their use of the year 1914 and I too, even as an observer, find their arguements compelling and very well thought out considering the amazing amount of personal study I have seen each Witness dedicate themself to.
I'd like to address the part I've bolded, if I may. JW's study, yes. But, they study Watchtower publications. They are discouraged from seeking outside sources and committing the "sin" of independent thinking. They study what they are told to study. They are limited in the information they are allowed to obtain and the sources they are allowed to obtain the information from. When they do receive the information they are supposed to "study", it looks nothing like the original source from whence it came. It has been chopped up, mashed together, watered down, and peppered with loaded language into a sort of intellectual pablum that serves no purpose but to indoctrinate them further, not into the bible's teaching, but into the Watchtower Society's interpretation of what they want the bible to say for them. Do you see? They are not learned, they do not do an amazing amount of personal study...they study Watchtower doctrine and nothing else (for the most part...you will find an errant JW or 2 who will look into outside sources...usually they don't last very long as JW's lol). I know more now as an ex-JW than I ever did as one...and I'm still learning.
Jehovah's Witnesses seem to know their subject and their Bibles very intimately.
Things aren't always as they seem. A JW "knows his bible" inasmuch as the Watchtower Society tells him what parts he needs to know. Sure, they're encouraged to read it, but any questions they have are to be cleared up by Watchtower publications alone. The WTBS has a very "cafeteria" way of interpreting the bible. A little of this, a little of that...OOOH pudding! See what I'm saying? They will state a doctrine, and look up a handful of scriptures to support that doctrine, but when you read the passages surrounding their "biblical evidence", you find that this is not what the bible is saying at all. So no, they don't know their bible...they know how to look up scriptures to support Watchtower theology. But they don't know the bible intimately at all.
@djeggnogg, when the Watchtower is pretty much the only ones claiming 607 and all other scholars agree it was 586/587, then yeah, they're wrong...which makes 1914 wrong, which makes 1919 wrong, etc etc. As for thinking all JW men are like my ex, no I don't think they're ALL evil, I have known some good ones, but genuinely good people are hard to find in the org. They like to talk about how genuine they are and how they are different, when in reality, I've never had someone abuse me more than certain JW's, and that's a fact. Their love is conditional, based on compliance with the Watchtower...whereas, I'm in love with someone who does believe in god and he doesn't give two shits that I'm an atheist. He loves me for who I am. You can't find that in the JW's, no matter how hard you try.
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andrekish
Hiya Jookbeard. I honestly hope I'm not offending people's feelings or beliefs. That's not my intention, simply to add another spoonful of sugar to the bowl, so to speak.
Just to re-iterate I am an interested observer, biased by my interest in God. I have heard much of the information put forward by the Witnesses and it does 'seem' to be credible at first sight.
That's why I have been visiting this site. There are two sides to this debate, I've heard only one so far, that proposed by the Witnesses. And no matter how credible the information given by Witnesses this has to be verified as correct, as well as investigating any inconsistancies with the organisation or GB.
I can see from this site that there is an awful lot of disagreement with the WBTS especially over inconsistancies with certain facts (re- UN membership, etc). Troubling, isn't it, that such disagreement can arise when there is but One Creator? I can only assume that it is man who is inconsistant and who changes his mind. Given that I am learning new facts each day I, personally have to reserve the right to change my mind as new information comes to light. As a small child I believed in Santa. As an adult I believe Satan exists, sometimes in the guise of Santa. So ALL new info is gratefully received and considered.
As a single viewpoint only, I admire all men who look to their Creator as this often puts us in our places and makes us think about this world and how we treat each other. Many people here clearly have differing viewpoints and that is wonderful since there are several billion of us scuttling around wrecking this planet with our petty wars and hatreds and here the laptop is as mighty as the missile.
Silly question here, Jookbeard, for fun only: Is it still unscriptural to covet your ass?