Good post. Only one nit to pick. Isn't it the July 15, 2011 Watchtower?
As The Governing Body Tightens its Grip...
by passwordprotected 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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wasblind
Hello there fresia,
Reasoning from the Scriptures page 97 states : " Before the last members of the generation that was alive in 1914 will have passed off the scene, all the things foretold will occur, including the "great tribulation" in which the present wicked world will end-------- Matt 24:21, 22, 34. "
All of the JW's I talked to say the GB don't make predictions, the Reasoning Book
sounds like a prediction book to me
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Guest with Questions
Totally ADD: When they have study articles in the WT that warns everybody not to trust anybody if they say something that sounds off beat to what they think the WT teaches
First off, I've never been a witness. I wonder about the above quote though. Does the average witness really know current Watchtower beliefs? or just the stuff they have recently been studying? I know with all the changes I couldn't possibly keep track.
I ask this because I was talking to the head elder that did the majority of the Memorial talk. We talked to him afterwards and I wasn't sure what he truly believed. Do they withold information from outsiders and say what outsiders want to hear?
During the talk he mentioned works a lot. When I spoke to him I said we do works because we are saved; that we don't do works to be saved, which would be very selfish, then again said we do works because we are saved. He agreed with me. My friend, a former witness, said that the man was clearly uncomfortable. I thought I had blown it but she said I did give him food for thought.
We looked like witnesses, we blended in. No one love-bombed us. Apart from the elder, only one lady introduced herself, asking how I enjoyed the Memorial. I couldn't lie so said it was alright.
The way I, sadly, saw these witnesses, were people without joy. No one looked enthused to be there. The singing was autrocious. I wonder if the average witness really understands what they believe. I really don't think so. The elder didn't even come across knowing for sure what he believed.
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Mad Sweeney
The average JW believes what he/she was taught when they were first indoctrinated. Many do not keep up with new light. Most JWs have never noticed any changes because they are rarely presented as such.
For instance, the change to the meaning of the word "generation" last year was presented as a single point in just one paragraph of an article that was ostensibly about how holy spirit directs the Borganization. Doctrinally, it is a MAJOR shift. To the rank and file, more than half didn't even notice and most of the ones that did, were so thankful for the Governing Body and the "new light."
Anyway, when they say you are not saved by works, they are either lying (which is ok, if it is to protect the reputation of Jehovah or His Borganization) or they just don't know the official Watchtower doctrine. The official doctrine is if you are anointed you are born again and saved by virtue of Christ's ransom. If you are not anointed, you are not saved at all; your "prospects for everlasting life" hinge upon your relationship with the Watchtower Society.
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DagothUr
That stupid Bible verse about the light that keeps getting brighter really served their purpose well. They can dump anything on the heads of the r&f, they have "biblical support".
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Guest with Questions
Mad Sweeny: I've been mulling over this for some time. The Memorial invitation stated:
Jesus takes away the sins of the world
how does he do it? Why is this necessary? How can you benefit?
The only possible explanation, as I see it, and the average witnesses not realizing it, the above comments in the invitation don't apply to them. If they aren't in the New Covenant, Jesus is not the Mediator, then you're not forgiven of your sins. I did read in the Watchtower CD that the Great Crowd had to work at their salvation, even during the 1,000 years.
Why would God only make a New Covenant of Grace with 144,000 people? He didn't. The other sheep, I told this elder, were us. the Gentiles. We are now included, both Jew & Gentiles, into the same Covenant.
I realize that Watchtower beliefs make absolutely no sense and the average witness has no idea they are on the outside looking in, just like the Gentiles before the New Covenant. They truly are brainwashed, unable to think rationally for themselves. I always got so frustrated. Don't they read their bible?
No wonder they have no joy. Christ has done nothing for them. They are totally on their own. The Memorial is such a farce. People getting together to reject Christ. In their minds they must think He has rejected them, without fully realizing it. How special they must feel.
I'm going to the Special Bible talk in May and may be bold enough to ask some more questions, at a different hall of course.
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clarity
PasswordProtected ... you need to be on here more!
Excellent, intelligent post...thank you.
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"I've explored this issue again on my blog*. I'm convinced that the WTBTS is prepared to lose members. Let's face it, it's easier - and cheaper - to maintain a membership roll of 3 million, or less, than it is 7 million. A smaller core group of die-hard acolytes is easier to micro manage than a more sprawled-out-in-terms-of-obedience congregation of wishy-washy part-timers".
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When you 'think' a smaller core of adherants to "provide" for, well just think of the Real Estate amassed world wide as well as in New York. That still belongs to wbts!!
Think of the millions being spent in Wakill(sp) on the huge recreation centre!
Gee, that just makes all the more for them doesn't it!! Maybe this was the long term plan all along!
I once knew a guy who took on a business partner. They worked liked crazy, the business became a success financially. He had the partner bumped-off and ..............he kept all of it!
clarity
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Joliette
I have to agree with the author of this thread.
I also think that something is going to happen that the GB (and the watchtower heavies) is and are NOT going to anticipate, and its not gonna come from the so called apostates, its going to come from the rank and file. The rank and file might be influenced by ex-JW's, but its gonna come from the rank and file. Watch and see!
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slimboyfat
I didn't notice this thread when I made my comment on the other thread. The discussion might go better here.
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james_woods
I didn't notice this thread when I made my comment on the other thread. The discussion might go better here.
I keep getting the two mixed up as well. Slimboyfat has made the point that very possibly the Legal Department is active in trying to liberalize certain rules to avoid legal or governmental problems - I think this is a good point. I also think we are seeing a movement of die-hard GB loyalists and hard-line shunners (as in the July 15 WT) who still want absolute control.