The part that bothers me about it is the uber-legalistic "death for death" aspect.
God's law is so rigid that someone has to DIE because Adam ate the forbidden fruit?
Why can't God just forgive people without this aspect of "human sacrifice"?
A reason christs ransom makes no sense to me
by Aussie Oz 50 Replies latest watchtower bible
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trevor
You can't just go around forgiving people - that's a Christian thing. The God of the bible was a Jew and insisted on circumcision, the 10 commandments and all that jazz. You got to admit that despite all his faults - he is to die for!
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White Dove
God killed his kid in order to pay himself back.
Huh?
Yeah, never made sense to me EVER.
Just accepted it and tried to be grateful.
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tec
God did not kill his Son. People killed His Son. God sent his Son for us, to show us the way to Life. He knew what would happen to Christ, yes, but that is not the same as causing it to happen. If it could have been any other way, then I believe it would have been...because Jesus asked His Father to take the cup away from Him, if possible. I might not understand everything, but I understand that much at least.
Tammy
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Aussie Oz
A true savior for mankind would benefit all mankind, not just the believers.
a true savior for mankind would not be killable by mobs
a true savior for mankind would be able to turn hearts to him/her/it.
otherwise they are of no more good than a noble minded man.
The reference to the film was the starting point of my thought... yes thay may well have wanted to kill the savior to come, but no conditions were palced on salvation either. The plot can be shot to pieces i am sure, thats not the point...
oz
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HintOfLime
The thing I don't get is that God "undid" Jesus's sacrifice when he brought him back to life. Just what exactly was "sacraficed" here anyway?
The whole 'sacrafice' is equivilent to someone deleting a file on your computer, and then you open your recycle bin, find the file, and pick 'Restore'. The end result is that nothing changed.
- Lime
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tec
Aussie - Try not to write Christ off as a savior just yet ;) His work is not finished. Also, I don't know if its possible, what you want from a savior. There are some people who love the 'darkness' and hate the 'light'. If someone hates the light, then they're not going to like a savior. So how do you change a person like that?
HOL - If you could have gone all eternity without ever tasting death (time doesn't necessarily apply, except from out pov), without being subject to torture, to mockery, to hatred, to betrayal and pain... but instead you chose to come to the place that would do all of this to you, out of love for your Father and for men, just to try and show us the Way to life... Well, that IS both sacrifice and love.
Tammy
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Deputy Dog
Tammy
God did not kill his Son.
Oh really? I'm sure you're going to tell me this is not scripture.
Isa 53:10
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
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Terry
God did not kill his Son. People killed His Son. God sent his Son for us, to show us the way to Life. He knew what would happen to Christ, yes, but that is not the same as causing it to happen. If it could have been any other way, then I believe it would have been...because Jesus asked His Father to take the cup away from Him, if possible. I might not understand everything, but I understand that much at least.
Tammy
Can we sort this thing out step by step, Tammy?
There is only one thing standing between man and God and it isn't SIN.
Sin is only a superficial attempt at explanation.
The REAL problem is that God does not permit free will to go unpunished. Disagreeing with God, in His opinion, means you deserve death.
SALVATION is a lawyer's trick on the part of bible writers. (Grace bypasses man's will and leaves "deserve" out of it altogether.)
When humans and God disagree it is called SIN. That is a difference of opinion with God's opinion being lethal to man's.
Rescuing man means finding a way around God's opinion that man must die no matter what.
With Abraham and Isaac God counted Abraham's WILLINGNESS to murder his own son as righteousness and NO DEAD ISAAC was necessary.
The Ram took the place of Isaac.
If Abraham is Jehovah and Isaac is Jesus......who is the Ram?
This a primitive calculus by any standard.
Having people cut the throat of an animal, bleed it dry and burn the meat IS BARBARISM and not a beautiful scenario of a benevolent God.
Mixing ancient barbarism with love and salvation and making it sound sane is the job of religious people with little desire to think about what they are really saying.
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myelaine
dear Terry...
Abraham was the man who would not hesitate to choose God over his own family (in matters pertaining to his faith). Jesus would (more appropriately) be compared to the ram.
romans 4:17-25
love michelle