If a child came to me out of trust and told me that someone was touching them there is no doubt that I would contact the proper authorities. I do not consider jw elders to be the proper authorities.
In general, what is the ethically correct response if a minor tells you someone is molesting him/her?
by InterestedOne 84 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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djeggnog
@mrsjones5:
If a child came to me out of trust and told me that someone was touching them there is no doubt that I would contact the proper authorities. I do not consider jw elders to be the proper authorities.
You and I finally agree on something. The elders are not the proper authorities to whom reports about improper touching or any similar allegation ought to be reported.
The ethically correct response if a minor should tell you that someone has been or is molesting him/her is to inform their parents or guardians of the child, whose are responsible for rearing that child as to the abuse reported to you by the minor. Your ethical responsibility is discharged once you have informed the child's parents of the crime. It is up that child's parents or guardians to carry out their ethical responsibilities toward their own child, not yours. If one of the child's parents or guardians is the one implicated by the minor for molesting him/her, then the ethically correct response would be to report the crime to the police, so that you do not become an accessory after-the-fact by being sworn to secrecy about the matter by the spouse of the abuser. Your ethical responsibility is discharged once you have informed the authorities of the crime.
Reporting such matters to one of the elders only wastes time that could best be spent by law enforcement officials should they decide the report warrants their launching a criminal investigation into the matter, for they are equipped to apprehend the accused child molester, and thus protect other children that might also have become would-be victims, if not already victims, of this predator than is the elder, who often has a family of his own and may not be immediately available to advise you or be there at your home when investigators arrive at your home.
In contrast, the responsibility of the elders is to protect the flock from apostate reasoning and thinking, from 'the rocks hidden below water, animalistic men lacking spirituality,' from men that 'defile the flesh and disregard lordship,' and from those that 'bite and devour' and from those in the congregation, who, through gossip, slander others and are "meddlers in other people's affairs" (Jude 12, 19; Galatians 5:15; 1 Timothy 5:13). Their role is to exhort in order "to incite to love and fine works," and to be both an upbuilding and encouraging spiritual influence to the flock. (Hebrews 10:24; Romans 14:19) It is error to conflate the role of the elders with that of law enforcement officials whose responsibilities are markedly different.
@djeggnog
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Skypilot
Call child abuse hotline.(8003923738) Police are not trained to deal with this. That is like asking elders to help with marriage probem or any problem for that matter.I ride with B.A.C.A. Bikers against child abuse call them next we will do Whatever it takes to stop the abuse now. Check out web site. Einstien said the world is a dangerous place not because people do bad things but because people stand by and do nothing.
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nugget
It seems that eggnog has done his usual trick of highjacking the thread with his smoke and mirrors. All is not fine and dandy in JW land after all why should it be. Elders are not trained counsellors nor do they have training in how to deal with child victims. They are trained to follow watchtower rules and feel they are above law. Do they do CRB checks? no. Do they have a person specifically appointed to safeguard children? No. Are parents made aware of any people in the hall who may be a danger to their children? No. Do they believe paedophiles can be cured through holy spirit? Yes.
The fact they ring a legal desk before contacting the authorities shows how warped their thinking is.
If a child tells you of abuse then the correct protocol is contact people who are trained to deal with this and can help the child, Also contact people who can ensure the perpetrator is removed from society. Don't go to the elders for help or justice neither is possible.
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flipper
SKYPILOT- My wife has the B.A.C.A. Bikers against Child abuse on our favorites section . They are well informed and a good organization that is fighting against child abuse. There needs to be more organizations fighting on behalf of abused children. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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SuperSpook
The age of a minor depends upon jurisdiction and application, but is typically under the age of 16, 18, or 21. A child is always a minor, but a minor isn't a child if they're 16 years of age or older. Children don't tell the elders about abuse, they would tell their parents. If a parent is the perpetrator, a child would tell someone that's around often, like a friend of the family provided there is one and the child is old enough to know the abuse is wrong. Many times a child will put the incident out of their mind and the memories become suppressed. Children don't go to the elders with this type of information, it's individuals that are age 16+. The victim interviewed by Bill Bowen on Dateline was 16 years of age when she alerted the elders. The policy you're quoting from more-less applies to adults.
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Skypilot
Agreed flipper, some of my new brothers are people I use to look down on and judge as bad association. Some are stepped down from 1% clubs bad ass people, but will give the shirt off of their back stand behind you no matter who the threat is without judgement. true unconditional friendship. After a life as a witness people who claimed to be true friends will run when they see me coming now.
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Band on the Run
I would report it to the parents AND child protective services. Why don't the parents know? Perhaps they are endorsing it. This pushes buttons with me b/c I faced serious child abuse from my father that happened right in front of the KH. No one intervened. The Witnesses assume that pedophilia is a routine occurrence, what is the fuss. They almost suggest well the person can go to the police. Yet I believe certain brothers are mandatory reporters and can sit in prison. And should be boiled in oil.
Not one of us has the expertise of professionals with CPS. It may be nothing. It may be the worst case ever.
A neighbor yanks my chain with tales of her husband who incested her daughters. She blames them and misses the economic social status she had. A long time before the incest, she found child pornography on his computer. A family discussion ensued. This is crazy. The children needed to be removed asap or sooner. She permitted the rape of her daughters. In my mind, she is just as guilty as her husband. We have this strange dance. I don't want to hear this garbage. She cries about herself, not her daughters. I say her daughters had to be protected. Finding pornography on a computer and not getting in touch with authorities is a crime. No matter what her age or how much they seemingly consented for money, cars, they were raped.
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Lady Lee
djeggnog
However, what if this elder to whom such a report is made is merely being used, not by a "victim" at all, and this report should turn out to be based on a lie in furtherance of a scheme to hurt an innocent brother or sister in the local congregation
You have got to be kidding? Do you have any idea how rarely this happens compared to how often children are in reality abused? If indeed a child is lying then the police are much better trained than any elder to find that out.
My head hurst at the nonsense of all the WT policy. JWs are trained to go to the elders with every little detail in theiur lives. Every decision they are unsure about they take to the elders. I know I was an elder's wife. They are always dealing with one thing or another. A JW will follow WT rules and take it to the elders before they will take it outside the congregation. They are programmed to do that. The only time they might not do it is when the accused is not a JW. Otherwise they will go to the elders first.
The elders need to obey the law and tell the victim and family to call the police and offer to stand there and support them while they do it. Only after the police have dealt with it should they notify that a JW has been accused. BUT they should not be interviewing anybody until the case is done in court. They should never speak to the vicitm or accused or others about this so they do not interfere with the legal case. They don't know how to interview people properly and believe me there is a correct and incorrect way to interview victims and especially children.
dg after everything you have said here you haven't convinced 1 person that the way the WTS deals with this issue is correct. And we, the victims, survivors, professionals and even elders have told you what the WTS says is wrong.
Learn something from it