Questions for former elders.

evilone

I have a few questions regarding moving and changing congs. I would love to hear from former elders.

My wife and I will be moving soon, and as I described in an earlier post we will be using the move as an opportunity to fade. I don't want to give away any identifying information, so I'm just going to pretend that we're moving from St Louis, MO to Chicago IL. I'm thinking that when we get to Chicago we can find a new cong, attend a few meetings and then ask the secretary for an official transfer. After having our cards sent from the old cong in St Louis to the new cong in Chicago we will then fade from there. So once the transfer is official, do you think we can just stop going? I think we will be able to successfully dodge the elders from the new cong because I intend to give them a fake address and maybe a po box. Also, I’m going to get cheap prepaid cellphones so that we have a separate numbers to give to the new cong and jw family, allowing us to screen calls. I’m hoping that because the new elders in Chicago will barely know us and be unable to find us they will just give up on us. If they do give up, does that mean we will be considered inactive? Can we just “park” our publishers’ cards there indefinitely? Is it possible that when the elders in Chicago can’t find us that they will contact our old cong back home in St Louis and try to get our families involved? Also, if someday say 5 years from now, we decide to move back to St Louis will our old cong then be unable to DF us because they don’t have our cards? Does the old cong keep any record on file of members who have transferred out and where they’ve gone? Could the secretary at our old cong in St Louis call the secretary at the cong in Chicago and tell him to send our cards back? My goal is to get “off the grid.”

Skypilot

Sounds like a lot of trouble. Just give your current secretary your new address as the address of the new congregation. My experience is they will take that in good faith and send cards and letter of introduction there. When you get them trash them. Go to new hall if you wish as a person of interest or one on a short term visit. If you tell your secretary you don't have an address he can get information from service dept.

OnTheWayOut

No No No. They will most likely NOT send cards to your own address. They will need a secretary's address and congregation number. Those could be faked, but it's difficult. Your plan of moving the cards to the new cong. where they won't be able to find you is pretty good. You seem to have most every base covered to fade. You aren't in trouble if you are bumped into later, there were just some clerical mistakes.

I might even suggest a couple of things, but only if they are practical. Attend a congregation slightly out of your way. If it were Chicago you move to, go to a Hall out of the territory. Give your new secretary the information from your old cong. right away and attend meetings for maybe 3 weeks tops, enough that they were sure you were going to come back. Then Don't. If you run into the new elders on the street, if possible, deny being the person you are. "Brother What? I ain't your brother, mister. Smith? No, not me."

OnTheWayOut

It is most likely that your cards will be transferred, you will be pursued and forgotten. It is possible that they will try to contact your family via the old congregation, but typically it is not done.

If you ever move back, just say little or nothing to the elders. I doubt they would want your cards back to "get you." They would be glad to be rid of cards for "inactive" publishers.

DaCheech

don't give family or new congo your address.

even if you give it to your family, they will forward it to the gestapo

Mad Sweeney

Your plan looks pretty good to me. Most elders in a new congregation have enough on their plate without chasing down a couple they've only known for a couple weeks. They might make a few token efforts to find you when their CO visits but if they don't know where you live, they will probably let it slide. There is a chance they might contact your old congregation again, but if they don't know where you are, either, then you're good to go.

I like OTWO's suggestion that you go to a new KH somewhere outside the territory where you actually are living.

Good luck.

Think About It

Grow a beard first, then visit different congs outside of the territory you live. The cong that is the coldest, most unwelcoming one is the one you want to "transfer" to. After you request your cards be sent......you will not be missed when you fade. Enjoy your new freedom & life with or without the beard. You might even make 2 transfers to really throw them off your trail.

P.S. You only have to do this in a cult you know?

Think About It

SnakesInTheTower

evil one... welcome to the board. We really should not have to jump through hoops should we, but as TAI said, its a cult.

Look through some of my old posts. I did this exact thing. Ironic, I moved to a St. Louis area congo.... in card only. I still live in the same house I have lived in for the last 13+ years. After I was deleted as an elder (and a secretary), I had my card sent to a congo about 15 miles away, another state, another circuit. I waited 3 weeks before actually attending. I never attended a book study group (partly because they couldn't figure where to assign me since I did not live in the territory). I hit and miss the TMS ... (despite their attempts to get me to give #2 and #4 talks .. -- because I had given public talks in their KH as a visiting speaker -- they even assigned me a school talk without my permission -- I was a "no show.") I attended the Sunday morning meetings, but often left after the talk. I quit commenting early on. I really had nothing to say.

This huge (150+) congo thought they were getting a MTS-trained elder, so the love bombing began. After they received my introductory letter, they knew I could not be reappointed for 3 years, and then only as an MS, then a year later an elder. Yeah, the love cooled quickly. I even had a difficult time getting a KM.

When the congo closed for 2 months for a major remodel and scattered everyone, I disappeared. I came back for one meeting when they reopened. And I walked out after the talk, and never looked back.

As a former secretary, I can tell you it depends on the lazy factor of the receiving and sending secretaries. A lot has changed since I was secretary, but you should just have your letter sent to a huge congo in a KH with multiple congregations. Then just get lost. That is what I did.

wish you well.

Snakes (Rich )

evilone

don't give family or new congo your address. even if you give it to your family, they will forward it to the gestapo

I have no intention of giving anyone our correct address, that's what the po box is for.

If it were Chicago you move to, go to a Hall out of the territory.

I'm not actually moving to Chicago, but the place we are moving to is a lot like Chicago in that it is a large metropolitan area that covers more than one state. We will use that to our advantage and go to a cong that is a considerable distance from where we are actually living. We may even be able to find a cong that is in a different circuit. I'm going to find the address of a large apartment complex near the new KH and give them that address (without an apartment number) and get a po box to go with it. If we do this right we shouldn't bump into any jw's who recognize us.

No No No. They will most likely NOT send cards to your own address. They will need a secretary's address and congregation number. Those could be faked, but it's difficult.

As nice as it would be to get the cards myself, I have no intention of doing so because it’s too risky. If I were to attempt to intercept the cards, there is no way I would try it with our current cong because they know us too well. I think the secretary would catch on pretty quick and then we would have a big problem on our hands. My primary goal here is to fall through the cracks and there is no way that can happen until we get our cards out of our current cong, and the safest way to do that is through a formal transfer. Now once we get to “Chicago” and the transfer is complete I might then consider pulling a trick like that, but it would take a lot of preperation and I would need some serious help from a former elder.

It is most likely that your cards will be transferred, you will be pursued and forgotten. It is possible that they will try to contact your family via the old congregation, but typically it is not done.

If we deem it necessary we could always transfer congs a second time after we get to “Chicago”, thus adding another layer between us and our old cong in “St Louis.”

evilone

We really should not have to jump through hoops should we, but as TAI said, its a cult.

The sad fact is that while your sitting there going through the motions in the KH you know that at least half of the people around you have the same doubts you do, its just that we're all afraid to say anything.

After I was deleted as an elder (and a secretary), I had my card sent to a congo about 15 miles away, another state, another circuit.

Wow Snakes, I have to wonder if while serving as secretary were you ever tempted to make your own card dissapear?

Questions for former elders.

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