by onemore 50 Replies latest jw friends
The ones who really take it seriously are among the most miserable, sour faced, unhappy, judgemental, disapproving people you could meet.
That has been the complete opposite from my experience. Calvinism is made to make you humble. It means you believe you have no reason to boast because it wasn't anything you did to earn God's favor, but everything HE did.
Armineans are the arrogant ones who think they are so smart they figured it out.
If I were a Calivnist, I would feel so very special. While others are going to Hell, through no effort of my own, I'm going to Heaven. It would be like winning the lottery.
reneelsorym --- ok, presbyterians are reformed theologians but do not believe any of the calvinism? seems where i live their churches are few and far between. you indicate they are big into theology --- like that part.
If I were a Calivnist, I would feel so very special. While others are going to Hell, through no effort of my own, I'm going to Heaven. It would be like winning the lottery.
I felt more special when I was a JW and thought I was so smart to be in God's one true organization.
In my experinece its a deeply disturbing set of doctrines.
From even before the moment of our birth god decided to condemn us to eternal damnation or eternal slavation. If the former there is not a thing we can do to change this, if the latter we are nothing but miserable sinners whose greatest acts are nothing but filthy rags and we are condemned to an eternity of telling god and each other how depraved we are and how awesome god is. I'm sorry but that is not a healthy sort of humility. It promotes an unhealthy view of human potential and divides all of humanity into them-and-us. How can you really love somebody who god decided to reject and torment for eternity even before they were conceived?
That's why I said those who actually take these doctrines seriously are unpleasant people - in parts of Scotland they take their TULIPs very seriously
reneelsorym --- ok, presbyterians are reformed theologians but do not believe any of the calvinism? seems where i live their churches are few and far between. you indicate they are big into theology --- like that part.
So Catholics were first, then the reformers were reformers because they broke away from the Catholic church. The reformation (1517) was led by Martin Luther who believed in what later became called Calvinism. Arminians (non Calvinist Protestants) broke away from there in 1610.
Presbyterians are Calvinists. They are big into theology.
How can you really love somebody who god decided to reject and torment for eternity even before they were conceived?
And how can Arminians love someone who outright refuses to believe? I can't be angry at people who are only a product of their upbringing!
A lot of times they refuse to believe because of life experiences, personality traits, location, or family. How is it fair that they won't end up being believers because of something they had no control over? We can all agree (if Christian) that God created us knowing our eventual fate. We all believe God can tell the future. If he chose to let someone be born knowing what they would decide, what's the difference??!
Fair point Renee. This is why I eventually rejected all forms of theism. I think that hard-line Clavinists are just a bit more honest about the consequences of biblical christianity.
reneeisorym
"If he chose to let someone be born knowing what they would decide, what's the difference??!"
That's called open theism and it's definately not reformed theology.
Reformers believe God decrees the future.
As I understand open theism god genuinely doesn't know and can't know what a person will decide becasue the future is actaully open to human choice. God has limited his omnisience to permit free will that is more than an illusion.
I went down this road for a while on my journy out of faith
