How evangelicals and Witnesses are alike

by jgnat 93 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Deputy Dog

  jgnat

  Deputy Dog: all the ones I've ever attended, agree with the bible

  Agreed. So do the Witnesses. It’s a matter of interpretation, and in this case, both think the other is false, and therefore deluded at best and dangerous at worst.

  I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. You said the JWs believe people are "condemned for their false beliefs" I don't know any evangelical churches that teach this. I believe we are condemned because we are sinners, not simply for false beliefs.

  JWs believe the are "saved" by WHAT they believe, look at how they translated:

  Joh 17:3

  This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

  I would argue that most evangelicals that I know would say they are saved by WHO they believe in.
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  jgnat

  godrulz, you have a particular doctrine, which includes a "right" interpretation of Jesus, and a literal acceptance of the bible. This is narrower than the majority of Christians. Don't make the same mistake as the WT and blame these other ones for all murders and wars. There is good evidence that extremists of any stripe are capable of violence.

  Don't use "we" when it comes to WT baggage. You've never lived it or marinated in it. You are an outsider.

  I'm sure to make you cringe with this next bit of advice. When the bible has been used as a club to beat people in submission, don't expect them to turn around and bless it. When meetings are associated with conformance and judgement, don't expect exiting witnesses to be running to the churches. Never mind that the churches have been characterized as the Great Satan.

  The great veterans of this board coached me to be kind. Don't push belief of any sort. Celebrate their intelligence and ability to make decisions for themselves. Let them recover.

  You may consider them lost, but don't you think that G-D knows them better?
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  godrulz

  The issue is Jesus, not peripheral doctrines. We are all condemned sinners in need of a sinless Savior and His grace appropriated through faith, not works. We are all in the same boat, religious, atheist, or nothing.
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  jgnat

  *ahem* "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved" is a doctrine. You and DD judge who is "in" and "out" based on this.
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  godrulz

  Jn. 3:16 vs Jn. 3:36 is doctrinal, truth, the gospel. Your beef is with God, Jesus, Bible, not me. I cannot and will not compromise I Jn. 5:11-13 (eternal destinies are at stake; notice no mention of smoking, voting, holidays, blood, organization, church, peripheral doctrines, etc. Rom. 10:9-10 simple!).

  I appreciate that many are adverse to belief and need healing, love, acceptance. How many years does this take and why not do it with the Great Healer instead of a shrink? At some point, one can be deprogrammed, but still spiritually dead in eternal peril. I do trust that the Spirit alone can convince, convict, convert, but He uses the Word and messengers who share it. This is foolishness to those who are blind/perishing, but life for those who respond by yielding to Him. I cannot judge hearts, but that does not free me from the Great Commission to all ethnos/peoples, including the kingdom of the cults. Many here can help people psychologically or emotionally, but that does not negate the need for the gospel, the ultimate source of help, healing, life, freedom (few will do that and Satan will oppose it).
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  jgnat

  godrulz, you interpret literally. I know you are not open to change.

  I see you consider bible counsel to be superior to secular helps, such as psychiatry. Which might explain your bullish approach. Shove enough Word down their throats and it is bound to taste better.
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  WontLeave

  Has it occurred to anyone else here that godrulz is exactly the caricature of everything JWs claim "Christendom" is? I'm starting to believe he reeks of a false-flag attack. Nobody is this elusive, accusative, threatening, arrogant, irritating, blind, and delusional; are they? This guy comes in here and, under the guise of trying to save all our souls, has many people on this forum defending the very reasons most here initially had any interest in JWs, in the first place. It's like he pretends to be trying to push everybody here in one direction, but in reality he's got us pulling the other way, because his references are vague, his personality is grating, his words are obnoxious and condescending, and his doctrine is stereotypically dogmatic. Everything he is making a grand show of attempting is having the opposite effect. I call shenanigans on falsegodrulz, as a WT troll, using all the tactics they claim "the churches" use, which any JW or ex-JW would be very keenly aware of, in an attempt to herd us into defending WT doctrine.
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  still thinking

  Hey godrulz I can see how passionate you are. I suppose this is why you enjoy pushing your beliefs so much. Personally I gain a quite a bit from what you say. Not because I agree with everything, but because it makes me question and look.

  It takes all sorts doesn't it? Some to say things forcefully. Some to be middle of the road to remind us not to be judgemental and keep some balance. I suppose at least we know what you think (at the moment).

  One size does not fit all when it comes to humans. Maybe its just as well we aren't all perfect, life would get pretty boring.

  I would rather listen to your stuff sometimes than someone like DJeggnogg. If I wanted to listen to him I would resume my study and start going back to the kingdom hall.

  "Believe in Jesus and you will be saved"

  jgnat I'm not sure this can be classed as a doctrine (but I could be wrong). Surely this is basically what the bible teaches.
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  still thinking

  WontLeave....yep.

  And the good thing about that, for me at least, is it reminds me not to trust any human 100% so I don't get suckered in to more religious babble.
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  jgnat

  WontLeave, don't underestimate the obnoxiousness of an evangelist under a full head of steam.

  stillthinking, what I am getting at here is that godrulz will remain confused about my spiritual condition until I tell him what I am thinking. He also must confirm that my concept of Jesus aligns with his own. Christianity is very much concerned about doctrine, but not all religions are. Most Muslims and Jews too, are chiefly concerned about behavior. Live in the way that is prescribed (for the Muslim towards greater holiness) (for the Jew to separate himself from base nature), and your thoughts remain your own. I hope I am not completely bastardizing these other faiths as I discuss this. godrulz has confirmed this by saying that behavior is not enough. For his Christianity.