I've studied for decades, too, godrulz. Your point? I'm still not settled on the matter. G-D, by his nature, is bigger than our perception and knowledge. We can only perceive a part.
Exactly how many different views of Jesus are there on the Board and doesn't that kind of tell Believers the obvious problem...
by designs 149 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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trevor
Philadelphia Ponos
Regardless of how many views random people have about Jesus. The view that matter's is the one and only view that the Bible gives about Jesus.
This illustrates the problem. Most modern Christians would not agree with this view.
Terry has hit the torture stake nail on the head again with his 'folder' explanation. The contents of the Jesus folder have become a personal matter rather than a unified consensus guided by holy spirit.
And the bible is no longer considered to be the inspired word of god. It has been relegated to a collection of opinions which are inspired or not, depending on whether the particular chapter fits neatly into the folder of the Christian reading it.
This is why I spend so little time nowadays debating with Christians. Nice as the Christians on this board are, I cannot find any evidence that this disorganized and varying collection of differing beliefs and opinions, is anything more than an attempt to find a purpose for the Christian Club to continue existing. My apologies to all Christians. You may call me Thomas if you wish.
Peace to you all - a slave of life who won his freedom
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AGuest
The view that matter's is the one and only view that the Bible gives about Jesus.
Interesting, dear PP (peace to you!), truly. Particularly since that's not what the Bible... or [Jesus] (as recorded in the Bible)... says:
"You are searching the scriptures because you THINK that by means of THEM you will have everlasting life. And these are the very ones that bear witness to me. Yet, you do not want to come to ME, that you may have life." John 5:39, 40
Can you (or dear godrulz - peace to you, as well!) point me, please, to where the Bible says we are to refer to it... versus referring directly to Christ? Please take care, though, before you point me to [Paul] and his reference to "all scripture" because I will then ask you to show me just what is "scripture"... per the Bible and Christ. Which I don't believe is what you think it is. But I could be wrong.
I await your response and, again, bid you both peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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ProdigalSon
All these different views is nothing new....it's been the same right from the beginning...
Jesus: Various Views
http://www.blavatsky.net/magazine/theosophy/ww/additional/christianity/Jesus-VariousViews.html
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designs
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Isn't that really the point, 2000 years and the opinions are still growing.
Nice Jewish man, I probably would have liked him.
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godrulz
We are certainly to follow and seek Christ, but how do we learn about God/Christ apart from Scripture? Without the parameters of Scripture, we could end up following a New Age guru-christ that is actually a demonic angel of light.
jgnat: I agree that we cannot know God exhaustively, but we can know much about His character, attributes, ways from His self-revelation in Scripture and dealings with man. One can write books on the doctrine of God, Christology, pneumatology, soteriology, etc. based on biblical revelation. We know that God exists, that He is uncreated, eternal spirit, triune, holy, just, loving, merciful, faithful, revealed in Christ, the God-Man, sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient (must be defined correctly), omnipresent, etc. etc. We know He is not Allah, a stone idol, a Buddha statue, Mormon finite, evolving men-gods, etc.
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trebor
We know that God exists, that He is uncreated, eternal spirit, triune, holy, just, loving, merciful, faithful, revealed in Christ, the God-Man, sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient (must be defined correctly), omnipresent, etc. etc. We know He is not Allah, a stone idol, a Buddha statue, Mormon finite, evolving men-gods, etc.
"We know" should be presented as "I believe". You have a faith, not for certain and proven facts. Intellectual honesty would assist in adding credence to your 'points'.
Passing belief as undeniable fact is something I hope most leave behind with the Watchtower Society.
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jgnat
I am beginning to have an affinity for religions that do not demand uniformity in belief. Rather, the emphasis is behavior here on earth. The Jewish religion and Muslim too are mostly like that.
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godrulz
JWs demand uniformity in belief and practice. The myriad of Christian denominations agree on the essentials, but have diversity of theological opinion on many peripheral issues. The cults do not like this because they do not understand unity/diversity. My church does not demand uniformity in belief except the truths that minimally define a biblical Christian. I have divergent views from most Christians. Behavior is a bad criteria since salvation is NOT based on works, but grace/faith alone in the person and work of Christ. Many Jews and Muslims are nominal hypocrites and do not live up to the ideals of their religion. They are not better than the average Christian when it comes to behavior. Orthodoxy and orthopraxy are related and important. Paul's letters are half doctrinal and half practical/behavioral. It is both/and vs either/or. One can be a wonderful Mormon and Muslim and go to hell. One can live the Christian lifestyle and go to hell. The issue is faith vs unbelief in Christ, not externals. Christianity has redemptive truth leading to eternal life, while religions have some behavioral truths that will make you a better sinner, but still lost.
Are you a universalist? If so, don't pretend you are a Christian. If you think Islam and Judaism are on par with Christianity, we have less in common than I thought.
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FifthOfNovember
I'm not sure whether or not Jesus existed. If he did, I don't think there was anything special about him other than his good speaking skills. If he didn't, then...well yeah.