How the WTBTS creates atheists

by Nickolas 103 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    So what happens when you find out evolution is false? Do you give up on life alltogether?

    Religion does not represent God our creator. At this stage in my life I believe that all religion exists to turn people away from God. (although that may just be because I feel a bit burnt).

    Just because religion is false, this is not proof that God is false.

    I do agree with you that the WTBTS does seem create atheists. Aside from their money hungry self promoting behaviour. This is what they are here for. And don't they do their job well?

    This is why they don't care about behaviour like shunning etc....if you arent giving them money. They couldn't care less if you believe in God or not. God has nothing to do with why the organisation exists. They couldn't care less about YOU or God. It's just about money and control.

  • doubtful
    doubtful

    This is why they don't care about behaviour like shunning etc....if you arent giving them money. They couldn't care less if you believe in God or not. God has nothing to do with why the organisation exists. They couldn't care less about YOU or God. It's just about money and control.

    If all they care about is the revenue stream from members, then why disfellowship people willy-nilly over a bunch of insignificant infractions? Most people who drink, have a one night stand, commit adultery, etc..are still willing contributors to the donation box. According to your logic, they are acting in a way that runs counter to their motive. The WT is not in it just for money. There are no fabulously wealthy GB members who live lavish lifestyles. They enjoy certain perks that their position of authority offers them, and they sure do lap up all the prestige and adoration showered upon them by their followers. But the objective is not to get rich. It's an end-times focused, apocalyptic, restorationist, hiearchial form of Christianity, hell bent on enforcing puritanical moral standards on its membership, because they sincerely believe that everything in the bible is the inspired word of God, and that God has appointed them to rule his church with an iron fist.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    So what happens when you find out evolution is false? Do you give up on life alltogether?

    I have never heard of anyone after having done the requisite research who has, as you put it, found out that evolution is false. I have, however, heard of many who have come to a conclusion that belief in the god of the bible is false and the only possible explanation for the existence of the various forms of life on the planet is evolution through natural selection. You must otherwise believe in magic, and belief in magic belongs to the braying infancy of our species.

    Just because religion is false, this is not proof that God is false.

    But there is also no proof that he isn't false. There is, in fact, no proof at all that he even exists. All there is is faith, and faith is not proof of anything at all. Faith can move mountains, or move people to fly passenger jets into skyscrapers or to blow themselves up in a crowded bus terminal, but it can never prove the existence of god, only the existence of faith. Still not thinking.

  • No Room For George
    No Room For George

    Unshackled, good thead, thanks for posting this.

    Me personally, I think I can see where you're coming from. There's some days I look at my upbringing as a born-in JW, and I feel a hatred in my heart towards this organization and its leadership that can't be quenched. It eventually leads me to questions about God and Jesus. One of hobbies is True Crime. I've always been fascinated by the underworld, mobs, street gangs, prison gangs, drug dealers, etc.. One thing I learned about prison gangs, is that its not a good thing to claim you belong to a prison gang under false pretenses, or even a street gang thats affilated with a major prison gang. The reason being is that the leadership within the prison gang will do their investigation to verify you are who you claim to be, and if you've been false flagging as they call it, you'll get dealt with. You know I have to say thats more than what God or Jesus will do when it comes to those that claim to speak in their names. When I look at the WT, for them to claim to have been selected in 1918/1919 by Jesus, and then call themselves witnesses of Jehovah which is probably a mistranslation of his name, I have to ask what is God doing? Why allow fraudulent groups and individuals to represent you? Why allow these groups and individuals to hurt so many people? It makes me wonder whether or not God and Christ exist.

    Another thing is, as a born-in, you're taught from a young age to hate other religions. You're taught simple arguments to use against other Christian denominations. Considering that most people in this country are indifferent to religious beliefs, or don't want to argue, it makes you believe that what you've been taught is accurate, when the reality is you've never really been challenged before. Even this past week's WT Study article mentioned atheists and agnostics as dishonorable to God. That's just the religous aspect of it when it comes to other Christians with differing beliefs on doctrinal matters. Then you throw into the mix atheists and agnostics who've really sat down and questioned matters that the average Christian/Jew/Muslim has never considered. If you've grown up in a fundementalist household and the religion forced upon you ultimately fails, then whats next? Atheism or Agnosticism, both of which I personally feel are the only categories that define the only really honest people left in this society. I'm still trying desperately to believe, and this past weekend I purchased a Chronological Bible, and I have to say as far as books go, it was one of the best purchases I've ever made. I've been hooked on it, its as if my faith just experienced a rebirth, and I'm excited to see where this takes me. I also purchased Eusebius' Ecclesiastical History. I'm not ready to go atheist just yet, but definately can understand where they're coming from, and definately respect the agnostic's position.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    WTS doesn't actually "create" atheists. But I know what you mean.

    A thread like this will only feed believers with what they see as atheist "excuses."

    I don't need an excuse to see reality.

    It's like Mindseye said. I finally saw the light about WTS and kept going. I saw the light about the Bible and I saw how science really does know a bunch. No mystery. Eastern thought is valuable but most doesn't require belief in God to see it's value. Science on the beginnings of life and the universe doesn't require God or a lack of God either. So dismissing God totally after dismissing Christianity comes down to observing how children suffer unfairly and God never heals amputees like people think he heals cancer.

    People thank God for sparing a handful of people in disasters and forget that He (if he were there) could prevent disasters.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    doubtful

    If all they care about is the revenue stream from members, then why disfellowship people willy-nilly over a bunch of insignificant infractions? Most people who drink, have a one night stand, commit adultery, etc..are still willing contributors to the donation box. According to your logic, they are acting in a way that runs counter to their motive

    This is a control measure.

    As they like to put it....."the leaven that will spoil the bread"....translated.....the people who may make others question what they are teaching and take their money with them. Better to lose a bit of money then all of it.

    From what I understand...they do not just disfellowship or shun for Biblical reasons..ie adultary etc. But for not accepting the watchtower teachings as truth. Even down to eating with a disfellowshiped person. The bible warns about associating. But this is a personal thing. It is not a punishable thing. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

    I think Jesus put it well when he said....."If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

    Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

    Romans 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

    And when it comes to minor infractions....it is still control. Because they know that losing family members and friends is the ultimate punishment. It brings people back into line...and giving money.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Nickolas

    I have never heard of anyone after having done the requisite research who has, as you put it, found out that evolution is false

    I think you need to read a few more books. There are many who used to be evolutionists that after research decided it did not add up.

    I am currently reading a book by Antony Flew. There is a God, How the world's most notorious atheist changed his mind.

    Again, atheists could not accept that he had changed his postition on evolution. His book caused a lot of controversy. So they tried to discredit him. Same old story, he is old (therefore does not have full brain function). This reasoning is getting very boring.

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Hang in there, NRFG.

    We all perceive doors opening in different ways, OTWO. You saw the light about the Society and then you kept going. Are we not saying the same thing? Regardless, I am not excusing myself. I have no regrets being where I am. I am merely acknowledging what helped get me here.

    Anyone else besides Antony Flew? Never heard of him. Odd that he labels himself the world's most notorious atheist.

    good night, all.

  • Quentin
    Quentin

    Awww Nickolas you beat me to it........ You being an atheist puts the subject in an more structured manner. I personally believe in a Deity, one interacts with on an individual basis, not group think. Religion is group think and has no place in an individuals life. Can I prove God exist, no. I can prove God motivates people to do things besides murder other people. Religion does that, not God. By the way, I accept evolution and what it is. A mechanism that is used by the Creator to bring things into being and exist.

    The wtbts has made more atheist than any entity that exist today. Good topic, you will get a lot of comments on this issue.

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Nicolas Just for you, a comment from someone on Flews book

    "Flew's book will incense atheists who suppose (erroneously) that science proves there is no God. Flew is a distinguished philosopher whose position has been changed by force of argument about the significance of scientific discoveries. This engaging personal reterospective on Flew's philosophical pilgrimage illustrates that it is dangerous for an atheist to think too hard about his religious commitment - he might become unconvinced."

    Ian H. Hutchinson, professor and head of the department of nuclear science and engineering, MIT

    Before you head off into a speel about how you are not tying to prove there isn't a God. Read the rest of the paragraph to get the actual point.

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