A few Dawkins quotes to think about. (page 27)

AGuest

Is that love? Grief, perhaps? It's something, to be sure, but what?

Both, dear Nick (again, peace to you!). If you haven't already (but I'm sure you have!)... watch a video regarding large birds of prey and their interaction with their young/mates. While I know doves are a different species it's a bit easier to see the "emotions" of the "kind" (aviary) from that perspective as their lives/interactions are more, shall we say, video-able?

Do you believe that creatures such as ants or termites "think and feel" just as we do?

"Just" as we do, dear Sab (peace to you!)? Not necessarily. Their worlds are different than ours; however, they are colony creatures and MUST be able to... ummmmm, go along with the "program". That would require them to think, to some degree. As for feeling as we do, I don't think so. Their lives are too... ummmm... I can't think of the word, but "here today, gone tomorrow" is what I'm thinking of. But I don't purport to equate ants and termites... or tape worms... with apes. Different "kinds", dear one.

What about tape worms?

Nahhhhh... as to thinking or feeling. Don't get me wrong: there are some creatures that, save enriching the earth through their processes and lives... so that OUR lives can be sustained... I can't, for the life of me, understand why they exist. A tape worm would be one of them.

Again, peace to you, both!

A slave of Christ,

SA, who must leave now - have fun, chickens!

AGuest

that dove is tapping into a force that precedes all of us and the reason why the dove's "love" appears "lesser" than ours is because of intellect.

YES!!! Boo-yow, dear Sab!

Peace!

Okay, I'm [really] going now...

SA

tec

Okay, I'm [really] going now...

LOL.

Peace to you, Shelby :)

Tammy

sabastious

(or lack of it in this matter, as we have a tendency to be arrogant about such things)

We are the greatest species on planet earth, that much is obvious, truly chosen by some even greater force. Yet, throughout my life I have many times found myself envying my pet cat's utter contentment with life while I sat fretting with things born from my "superior intellect."

-Sab

Nickolas

I've got to get some work done but I'll leave this little story as I go. When I was younger and less affluent I put meat on my family's table with a high powered rifle. Moose and deer, mostly. A moose would provide enough meat to supply two families for a year, a deer much less but still significant. All of the deer I killed were clean shots, as were almost all of the moose. There were two, however, that were not. The first was a cow, which I had shot at a considerable distance through its chest cavity, what is called a heart-lung shot. A moose's heart is the size of a cantelope and if it is hit along with the lungs it generally will cause the moose to die very quickly. But this shot missed the heart, punctured the lung at the point of bullet ingress and blew a hole the size of my fist out of the other lung. The animal walked about 10 feet and lay down, watching me as I approached her. She did not appear to be suffering but rather looked perfectly calm, almost curious, certainly beautiful in her own way. I shot her in the forehead at a distance of a couple of yards and then I wept. The second one was a bull I had been stalking for several hours. I located him at the edge of a clearing, about 100 yards out, but as I shouldered my rifle and fired he caught wind of me and turned to run and the bullet struck him in the hip, shattering his pelvis and dropping him on the spot. But he was very much alive as I approached and, this time, the experience was different. His eyes were as big as saucers and trained on me, and his nostrils were flaring and blowing hard. His teeth were chattering and his head was swinging back and forth slightly. When I got close he closed his eyes. I shot him in the head, and once again I wept. Animals experience much more than we might give them credit for.

cofty

there are some creatures that, save enriching the earth through their processes and lives... so that OUR lives can be sustained... I can't, for the life of me, understand why they exist. A tape worm would be one of them. - Shelby

Nothing exists "so OUR lives can be sustained". That is a fundamental misunderstanding of the natural world. A tapeworm exists for exactly the same reason as a bird of paradise - to pass on its selfish genes. A tapeworm is a genius at being a tapeworm it has no "purpose" beyond that. Most humans are woefully anthrocentric as is illustrated by Sab's comment below..

We are the greatest species on planet earth, that much is obvious, truly chosen by some even greater force.- Sab

Get over yourself Sab, we are apes with big brains. We have evolved a body that has wonderful potential that is unmatched by any other creature but that is nothing more than a fluke of evolution.

PSacramento

Get over yourself Sab, we are apes with big brains. We have evolved a body that has wonderful potential that is unmatched by any other creature but that is nothing more than a fluke of evolution.

If there is nothing special or unique about us and we are no more than mere flukes of evolution, why do we have issues with suffering? fairness? why do we differenciate between is and ought? why do we seek WHY when HOW is more than good enough? why do we imagine? why do we KNOW we exist other than just existing?

trevor

If there is nothing special or unique about us and we are no more than mere flukes of evolution, why do we have issues with suffering? fairness? why do we differenciate between is and ought? why do we seek WHY when HOW is more than good enough? why do we imagine? why do we KNOW we exist other than just existing?

Because our brains have got too big and developed an ego. Our destruction of the planet and its resources continues unabated. As humans we are no where near as wonderful as we think we are. I have a lot of respect for horses, as it happens. And of course my close relatives, the apes.

Pika_Chu

@Cofty: to be fair, I think Shelby was talking about dependent relationships between organisms, like food webs, symbiosis, and the oxygen/carbon dioxide cycle between plants and animals. That much is true. However, this is like irreducible complexity and fine tuning arguments, wherein the parameters of life being met by the environment are considered evidence of design. The thing is, we EVOLVED (and life originated) to live within the parameters which were there to begin with. Had the parameters been different, life as we know it would be different, not non-existent. @Sab: I would say nature is purposeful in selecting us to be the most highly intellectual beings on Earth, but for reasons not relating to anything SUPERNATURAL. Obviously, there are many advantages to higher intelligence. Intelligent life forms are experts in manipulating the very environments which would otherwise control them. High intelligence allows for complete role-reversal and thus excellent chances for survival. Also, for my two cents about animal suffering, I believe animals suffer just as much as we do physically. The emotional aspect of said suffering is what is questionable. I don't think animals (with the exception of hominids, and possibly chimps and bonobos, as well as other higher primates--"higher", in this sense, would indicate greater capacity for such things anyway, by definition)suffer and think, "Oh, the HUMANITY!"

PSacramento

Because our brains have got too big and developed an ego. Our destruction of the planet and its resources continues unabated. As humans we are no where near as wonderful as we think we are. I have a lot of respect for horses, as it happens. And of course my close relatives, the apes.

Well, evolution sucks ass then.

Damn you Darwin, Damn you to hell !!!

I for one am looking forward to serving under our Ape Overlords.

A few Dawkins quotes to think about.

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