Thanks Black Sheep.... Thanks for sticking with me through this :)
I will reply to her now with the suggestions you made earlier.
How should I respond to a JW friend? (Australia)
by summerinvincible 115 Replies latest jw friends
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summerinvincible
Ok, this is what I will say. I'm worried that it sounds too accusatory... Will wait for your reply before I send it:
I read the article you gave me called "Growing in accurate knowledge of the truth".
A section in this article says: In 1876, when Russell had first read a copy of Herald of the Morning, he had learned that there was another group who then believed that Christ’s return would be invisible and who associated that return with blessings for all families of the earth. From Mr. Barbour, editor of that publication, Russell also came to be persuaded that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874. Attention was later drawn to this by the subtitle “Herald of Christ’s Presence,” which appeared on the cover of Zion’s Watch Tower.
Going back to what we were talking about before - I asked if the Watchtower predicted Christ's return in 1914 and you said that they had. But this article says they thought it was in 1874 and that they published that in Zion's Watch Tower. When did the Watch Tower start predicting Christ's return in 1914?
The article says that the Adventists thought that Christ's return would be in the flesh, then, after he hadn't shown up and the Adventists looked silly, Russell says that it was invisible, but that they had the date right, just like Camping did by claiming Judgement Day was invisible when nothing happened... I'm sure the Bible must have scriptures warning about following false prophets. What are they?... Do you think the the Adventists were false prophets? ... Do you think Camping is a false prophet?... -
Black Sheep
It is a fine line we tread.
Even though there is nothing really accusatory in those questions, she might see it that way, but .....
...... your questions are only based on what she said, and what she sent you.
If she runs away, she will run away in the knowledge that everything is not as it seems. I don't expect her to leave the cult tomorrow. More like after several years of nagging doubts. We have to get them in there while she is still talking to you.
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summerinvincible
Just thought I'd let you know, I'm still waiting on a reply from her.
She has talked to me via Facebook about other things - just not this.... so she's still 'with' me so to speak!
Another question - she mentioned enrolling her son into kindergarten which I was very surprised about.... because kindergarten isn't compuslary in Australia, so I thought she would have wanted to avoid sending her child to a "worldly" institution...?
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Black Sheep
Most of them will end up going to a 'worldly' school, so it does make sense to him.
Not All Dubs are that sensible. I don't know any JW kids of my age group that went to kindy. What the current feeling is, I don't know.
Maybe she wants him in kindy so that she can get in her Pioneer hours. Gotta save dem Christians from dose evil Kaflicks.
I'm pleased she is still talking.
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InterestedOne
Hi summerinvincible - I'm still with you too and wondering what happened. I'm also glad the two of you are still talking. This reminds me of what would happen with my JW friend. She would conveniently let our conversations fade without being resolved.
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skeeter1
Just simply tell her that you are not interested in being a Jehovah's Witness, but that you'd like to remain friends and spend time together. If she asks you why, just remain neutral and say, "Religion is not my cup of tea." THe minute you start in on the JWs, her alarms will go off. However, if you are neutral, she will have an outlet to complain. Wait for her to complain, and then ask her an open ended question. This is a long process.
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skeeter1
OMG, my JW mother didn't send ANY of her children to Kindergarten! She just said that we weren't mature enough and she wanted us home and it wasn't mandatory. I never thought this was a universal experience.
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Black Sheep
In my days kindy would have had flag saluting and singing God Save the Queen & the National Anthem, plus Santa and the Easter bunny.
It was bad enough putting your kid through that at school. Why start early at kindy?
I know quite a few home schooled kids too. It's more common in NZ now than in my schooldays.
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summerinvincible
I'M BAAACCKKK!!
Black Sheep, InterestedOne and skeeter1 - Hope you guys are still around! She finally replied a couple of days ago, with a letter.....
To recap, here's what I said to her last time:
A section in this article says: In 1876, when Russell had first read a copy of Herald of the Morning, he had learned that there was another group who then believed that Christ’s return would be invisible and who associated that return with blessings for all families of the earth. From Mr. Barbour, editor of that publication, Russell also came to be persuaded that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874. Attention was later drawn to this by the subtitle “Herald of Christ’s Presence,” which appeared on the cover of Zion’s Watch Tower.
Going back to what we were talking about before - I asked if the Watchtower predicted Christ's return in 1914 and you said that they had. But this article says they thought it was in 1874 and that they published that in Zion's Watch Tower. When did the Watch Tower start predicting Christ's return in 1914?
The article says that the Adventists thought that Christ's return would be in the flesh, then, after he hadn't shown up and the Adventists looked silly, Russell says that it was invisible, but that they had the date right, just like Camping did by claiming Judgement Day was invisible when nothing happened... I'm sure the Bible must have scriptures warning about following false prophets. What are they?... Do you think the the Adventists were false prophets? ... Do you think Camping is a false prophet?...HER RESPONSE:
"If you read further in that section at the back, it explains how they later came to the date of 1914 after further research. The footnote page 133, 134, 135 have extra information too. '1914' was used in early issues of the Watchtower in December 1879, July 1880. This book is open and honest, shows how things have progressed and improved as to Bible understanding. It shows all the details of the men involved, giving a willing and open insight into the organisation of the Jehovahs Witnesses.
Christ's presence was to be invisible to the naked eye as Scriptures said he will come in the same manner he left (not visible after caught up in a cloud) [then she referenced some scriptures about this].
The Bible does warn about false prophets [more Bible passage references]. It was foretold that false prophets would come, and would mislead people. The amount of religious differences today is proof of that. The Bible said the road to life is narrow and not many will find it. However many believe that "all roads lead to God". I personally haven't looked into the Adventists, or Camping, so couldn't honestly know their motives or intentions. I believe there are people who genuinely want to know the truth."
There's more, but she went COMPLETELY off topic again, pointing the finger at other religions. i.e. "How many religions teach that God wants angels in heaven so that's why babies and children die?" Ummm, none that I know of LOL
SO.... what now guys? I feel like '1914' has come to a dead end! Oh and Skeeter, don't worry I'm being completely neutral. All I'm doing is asking questions, which she seems to like!