Religious Reform

by Maze 216 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • metatron
    metatron

    Yup, this looks like the same dolt appearing here as "Alice". Make wild assertions about how wonderful the corrupt, stumbling organization is and simply ignore any contrary facts presented in posts.

    And the same stunning lack of intelligence: as with the garbage above. Why would the organization cover up child molesters and not also cover up fornicators, to save their reputation? Easy!

    You see, in common opinion in the world, "fornication" is no big deal. I know of college trained people who weren't certain what "fornication" even was. 'Living in sin' is no big deal. On the other hand, molesting chidren is dramatically viewed as evil, along with those who do such things. The ever deceptive Watchtower has every motivation to conceal molestation of children within the organization and has done so ( as with my family's victimization).

    In some respects, the organization has become more deeply corrupt because in the past, they used to be more explicit and honest in decrying bad behavior within the organization, from the platform, especially at long assemblies.

    This 'coverup' attitude is often manifest in the Awake magazine, which carefully discusses serious moral failings without identifying those involved as Jehovah's Witnesses. This is not surprizing as , some years ago, a member of the GB actually tried to stop printing of a magazine that admitted the problem of physical abuse of wives within the organization.

    metatron

  • Maze
    Maze
    Yup, this looks like the same dolt appearing here as "Alice". Make wild assertions about how wonderful the corrupt, stumbling organization is and simply ignore any contrary facts presented in posts.
    And the same stunning lack of intelligence: as with the garbage above. Why would the organization cover up child molesters and not also cover up fornicators, to save their reputation? Easy!
    You see, in common opinion in the world, "fornication" is no big deal. I know of college trained people who weren't certain what "fornication" even was. 'Living in sin' is no big deal. On the other hand, molesting chidren is dramatically viewed as evil, along with those who do such things. The ever deceptive Watchtower has every motivation to conceal molestation of children within the organization and has done so ( as with my family's victimization).
    In some respects, the organization has become more deeply corrupt because in the past, they used to be more explicit and honest in decrying bad behavior within the organization, from the platform, especially at long assemblies.
    This 'coverup' attitude is often manifest in the Awake magazine, which carefully discusses serious moral failings without identifying those involved as Jehovah's Witnesses. This is not surprizing as , some years ago, a member of the GB actually tried to stop printing of a magazine that admitted the problem of physical abuse of wives within the organization.
    metatron

    All gross sins collectively fall under the same category as defined in the Bible.

    What! Do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    There are sins of varying degrees of seriousness. What matters most is whether the sinner is repentant.

    http://www.watchtower21.org/2010/09/sex-predators-and-social-reform.html

    Can sex predators be reformed?

    ATASCADERO – At a mental hospital on California's central coast, a team of doctors works to achieve what many people think is impossible: teaching violent sex offenders to curb their ugliest impulses.

    The sex-offender treatment program at Atascadero State Hospital was created after the state Legislature enacted laws in 1996 to extend custody for the worst offenders.

    Behind locked doors and razor-wire fences, the staff guides these men – classified as sexually violent predators – through an intensive treatment program designed to prevent them from committing new crimes once they are released.

    But after 10 years in practice, the sex-offender treatment program at Atascadero State Hospital has few success stories. The odds that a participant will be judged suitable for release are greater than 100-to-1.

    It's a fact that seems to surprise no one, especially vocal San Diegans who recently have opposed the release of two sexual predators from Atascadero. They believe no program can make a violent sex offender safe enough to live outside a locked facility.

    Medical experts, though many stand behind the program, acknowledge that even with years of therapy these offenders never will be “cured” of their deviant urges.

    “Sex offending is a very ingrained behavior,” said Dr. Gabrielle Paladino, a psychiatrist at Atascadero State Hospital. “There's a part of it that's very satisfying to the perpetrators, and it's darn difficult to erase.” Even the offenders have their reservations.

    The overwhelming majority choose not to enter the program, which lasts from six to eight years and strips them of their privacy, even after they are released. Instead, they remain confined at the maximum-security hospital in this rural San Luis Obispo County community until their commitments end, or they convince a jury that they are safe enough for outpatient care.

    The difficulty of deciding when and how to release a sexual predator is borne out by the program's track record.

    When confronting this complex problem, above all, congregation elders are expected to obey the law.

    Reform in the context of this subject is chosen by an abuser, not imposed. Repentance is the first step toward reform. The verb “repent” means “change one’s mind with regard to past (or intended) action, or conduct, on account of regret or dissatisfaction,” or “feel regret, contrition, or compunction, for what one has done or omitted to do.” The wrongness of the course or act must be recognized, and this requires an acknowledgment that God’s standards and will are righteous. Repentance marks a halt in the person’s wrong course, the rejection of that wrong way, and the determination to take a right course. If genuine, it will therefore be followed by “conversion.” (Acts 15:3)

    The congregation elders nor the governing body has ever made an “executive decision” that stipulates that elders should initiate a practice to cover for pedophiles. There is no real evidence such as signed documents as with other organizations. There's simply apostate conjecture.

    http://www.watchtower21.org/2010/09/answering-critics.html

    Key differences in organizations accused of cover-ups in contrast with Jehovah's Witnesses:

    • Signed documents by the administrative position that direct clergy or officials to dismiss the incident and that direct that no action is to be taken.
    • These cases of sexual assault associated with “cover-ups” took place while the children were in the custody of the church or organization that should have been a safe-environment for children; not an isolated location outside an administrative overseer's supervision.

    Telegraph.co.uk - Pope Benedict accused of delaying unfrocking of sex abuse priest

    Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to unfrock an American priest with a record of sexually molesting children, arguing that the negative publicity would damage the church in a 1985 letter bearing his signature.

    The 1985 letter typed in Latin and signed by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger said any decision to remove Stephen Kiesle, a San Francisco priest, from the priesthood must take into account the “good of the universal church”.

    The letter was among years of correspondence between the California diocese of Oakland and the Vatican over the Fr Kiesle’s future. Kiesle was sentenced in 1978 to three years’ probation after making a plea of no contest to charges of lewd conduct related to tying up and molesting two young boys in a San Francisco Bay area church rectory.

    The Freethinker - US Boys Scouts and the LDS Church conspired to cover up child abuseUS Boys Scouts and the LDS Church conspired to cover up child abuse

    A $1.4-million damages award this week to an Oregon man has severely dented the reputation of the Boy Scout movement in America, and the Church of Latter Day Saints.

    A Portland jury awarded damages to Kerry Lewis, 38, after the court heard of the abuse he suffered at the hands of Timur Dykes, an assistant scout master, an authorized Mormon representative - and serial molester of young boys.

    And, according to this report, there could be more financial damage to come, with jurors set to go back to court next week to decide whether the Scouts must pay up to $25 million in punitive damages.

    The verdict delivered by the jury was based partly on the introduction as evidence of more than 1,000 so-called "perversion files" secretly kept by the Boy Scouts of America at the group's national headquarters from 1965 to mid-1984.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Nugget! They told her to forgive her husband??? When did that happen? I'm on the edge of vomiting. How could she ever let him touch her again? What a sick and unclean thing to demand. Bastards. Too bad Maze can't be shamed or startled into hearing us. I'm not too sure it is balanced though.

    NC

  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    US Boys Scouts and the LDS Church conspired to cover up child abuse

    Bzzzzzzz.

    Logical Fallacy - Tu quoque.

    The fact that someone else had committed the same crime does not make the crime committed by the WTBS any less of a crime.

    Try again

  • Mary
    Mary

    Alice.in.Glueland/Maze: have you ever considered switching to a stronger brand of glue? Clearly whatever you're presently sniffing isn't doing the trick. Might I suggest a hot glue-gun to help temper those delusions of grandeur you seem to have on a regular basis? I also hear it helps control pathological lying. I'm sure you're Social Worker would approve!

  • metatron
    metatron

    Yup, same dolt! A long windy post that skips past essential points - such as the public view of pedophilia and why the Watchtower has motivation to cover it up, unlike fornication.

    Evidence of cover ups? Well, as Barb pointed out the Society paid out millions of dollars in West Coast congregations to settle child abuse cases, as shown by court documents that fell into her possession.

    After WW2, some Japanese Generals were tried, convicted and executed for what their troops did in committing atrocities in China. They protested that their troops were guilty, not them. No matter, said the court, 'you were in charge and must have known what was happening and failed to stop it'.

    There is some evidence that the Service Dept deliberately threatened publishers who reported child molestation within the organization. Yet, even without that - they had every reason to know that they had a serious problem with child molesters in the organization and did little to stop it - until Dateline and governments forced them to make the changes you speak about!

    And after that display of moral myopia by the self praising "Faithful Slave", what do we find today? Attempts to baptize children and make them subject to disfellowshipping - an act of child abuse. Also, encouraging the breakup of families thru shunning and doing nothing to stop the widespread extremism practiced by Witnesses in this regard.

    metatron

  • Maze
    Maze
    Yup, same dolt! A long windy post that skips past essential points - such as the public view of pedophilia and why the Watchtower has motivation to cover it up, unlike fornication.
    Evidence of cover ups? Well, as Barb pointed out the Society paid out millions of dollars in West Coast congregations to settle child abuse cases, as shown by court documents that fell into her possession.
    After WW2, some Japanese Generals were tried, convicted and executed for what their troops did in committing atrocities in China. They protested that their troops were guilty, not them. No matter, said the court, 'you were in charge and must have known what was happening and failed to stop it'.
    There is some evidence that the Service Dept deliberately threatened publishers who reported child molestation within the organization. Yet, even without that - they had every reason to know that they had a serious problem with child molesters in the organization and did little to stop it - until Dateline and governments forced them to make the changes you speak about!
    And after that display of moral myopia by the self praising "Faithful Slave", what do we find today? Attempts to baptize children and make them subject to disfellowshipping - an act of child abuse. Also, encouraging the breakup of families thru shunning and doing nothing to stop the widespread extremism practiced by Witnesses in this regard.
    Metatron

    I've read the court documents from the prosecution. Better yet, contact the California courts for the defense documents. There were no "millions of dollars" paid out.

    http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Deal.html

    Opposers say that the Watchtower Society knew they were in the wrong and so they offered a settlement. But lets consider this reasoning in light of the truth about the Boer case. The Watchtower Society knew that all the facts were in their favor. They knew that it was on record that the elders had seen to it that her father reported himself and that elders had even made an appointment for her to meet with a therapist. And yet the Watchtower Society offered a settlement. Why?

    Contrary to what opposers may assume, the Watchtower's reported settlement offer of $50,000 was not made to Boer because they knew they were in the wrong and neither was the settlement offer involving the 16 persons made for that reason. The money was no doubt offered because they knew that it would cost more than that to go to trial and that it would be very time consuming. They were simply trying to offer a settlement as a way of curtailing expenses for a long drawn out court case. Not only that but Vicki Boer as a child abuse victim could have benefitted from that $50,000. But you have to wonder why the plaintiffs would take the offer along with the gag order? If they had such a strong case, why not go for more money and expose the Watchtower Society?

    So then who really was the victor in the settlement? Well, consider this. If it had went to court and the Watchtower Society been found libel or guilty they would have definitely been the loser. They would have paid out millions of dollars as ordered by the court. But since it did not go to court the Watchtower Society was not found libel. The Watchtower Society was not found guilty of promoting child abuse. In short, the Watchtower Society did NOT lose. Those who were out to 'expose the evil Watchtower' failed in their mission. Kimberlee Norris supporter Gerard mentioned earlier even lamented, "...with a gag order, no reporter will want to touch it and the WT is winning." Yes, the truth still remains that the Watchtower Society has never lost not one single child abuse case brought against them in a court of law. This attest to the strength of their child abuse policy, a child abuse policy 'unequaled in the religious community'.

  • Retrovirus
    Retrovirus
    And yet the Watchtower Society offered a settlement. Why?
    Contrary to what opposers may assume, the Watchtower's reported settlement offer of $50,000 was not made to Boer because they knew they were in the wrong and neither was the settlement offer involving the 16 persons made for that reason. The money was no doubt offered because they knew that it would cost more than that to go to trial and that it would be very time consuming. They were simply trying to offer a settlement as a way of curtailing expenses for a long drawn out court case

    Poor, delusional Maze. Because of the gag order, this load of bad grammar cannot be verified. But, just this once, ask yourself . . .

    If the Watchtower was so correct and justified, why did they issue the gag order??

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    The problem is with your assumptions which no person shares. You make declarative statements. Jehovah....... Prove it. Show us a shred of proof.

    All Bible knowledge aside, I know the Witnesses are b.s. from actual experience over many years. Just as I experience Christ, I experience the Witnesses as a cult, a bad one.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    AliceInGlueLand AKA Maze

    The money was no doubt offered because they knew that it would cost more
    than that to go to trial and that it would be very time consuming.....AliceInWonderLand/Maze

    Soooooooooooooooooooo..

    According to You..

    The WBT$..A Multi-Billion Dollar Organization..

    "GOD`S ORGANIZATION"..An Organization that calls itself "THE TRUTH!"

    Wasn`t interested in "Proving the Truth" in a Court of Law..

    BECAUSE..

    The WBT$ was Much More interested in Saving Money..

    Do you still Wonder why people Laugh at You?

    ..................... ...OUTLAW

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