We're not out to prove anything to those that are hard-hearted practicers of sin and have rejected Jehovah . . . . Maze
No? . . . . so you're here to prove it to us instead? . . . that's nice.
Religious Reform
by Maze 216 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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sizemik
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steve2
If Maze hasn't thought of it herself, it cannot possibly be true. If her experience is different from others, their experience cannot possibly be true. If Maze believes that JWs are the true religion because they have love among themselves, the JWs self-congratulations deafen her to the significant loveless suffering in myriad local congregations. Recitation of scripture covers all sins, regardless of the facts.
And to think that when I was younger, I genuinely believed it was the members of churches of Christendom who lived with their heads in the sand and that it was the JWs who bravely faced up to and promoted "the truth". Well, at least Maze shows up here which is a damn sight more than your genuine JW would ever do. In that sole regard, Maze sets herself apart. Now if she could only take that extra step and face up to the misery in the local congregations.
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nugget
In the incident I mentioned the wife was so angry with the elders advice she left the congregatin and the JWs and told everyone why. She would not have him anywhere near herself or her children and I have great respect for her.
Maze my knowledge is not secret or special it is eye witness accounts of events and can be proved. Unlike the watchtower quotes from dubious sources. I used to believe like you that the organisation would protect the innocent I have learnt this is not the case. Trying to demean me as a person and applying a label to what you think I am does not change me or make me less reliable. I am a mother and as such take any threat to my children very seriously.
You have said in your experience nothing like that happens, well quite frankly how would you know? Not every congregation has a paedophile attending and not every family is disfunctional. In addition unless you were an elder you would not be privy to the secret sins in a congregation. Your problem is you are too gulible and ignorant to accept that your lifeworld may be different to someone elses. I accept the possibility that other experiences may vary to mine .
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Aussie Oz
refering to mazes opening post...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You truly have no idea do you?
Pot meet kettle situation.
oz
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Mary
Glue-sniffing Maze/Alice said: Contrary to what opposers may assume, the Watchtower's reported settlement offer of $50,000 was not made to Boer because they knew they were in the wrong and neither was the settlement offer involving the 16 persons made for that reason. The money was no doubt offered because they knew that it would cost more than that to go to trial and that it would be very time consuming.
You forgot to use the word "evidently". Do you have any evidence that this is why the Borg offered the money? No? Didn't think so. I find it hilarious that your only contact with the outside world appears to be with 'apostates' instead of with Jehovah's Witlesses who you profess to be associated with. Since neither group has any respect for you, it begs the question as to why you even bother..........I guess coming on here is the only way to get that much-needed persecution fix to make you feel like a somebody.
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metatron
The West Coast cases likely involved millions, given the cost of the one exposed.
The rest of my post remains unchallenged: THEY MADE A WHOLE LOT OF CHANGES BECAUSE THEY GOT CAUGHT BY DATELINE, THE INTERNET AND GUYS LIKE BOWEN. THEIR 'FAITHFUL SLAVE' STATUS (A LOAD OF CRAP) DIDN'T MOTIVATE THEM TO PROPERLY PROTECT CHILDREN UNTIL THEY WERE FORCED INTO IT.
They knew, they got the reports from Judicial Committees - and did nothing until the supposedly 'Satan-led' governments forced them to do the right thing. That's why these changes happened.
metatron
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Hoffnung
Hi Maze,
Let us return to the subject of this thread, reform. Let us talk about Judicial Comites. Judicial comites and their procedural rules are problematic, to say the least. As far as I know "judicial comite" is nowhere in the bible.
But even if it was, the biblical standard of judicial matters would at least be public one. Judges in the israel of old made decisions in the city gates, open to the scrunity for everybody. So tell me Maze, why are judicial comites behind closed doors? Which bible verse prohibits there to be any witness of the judicial process? Would public justice not guarantee more correct judgements? Please answer.
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OUTLAW
So tell me Maze, why are judicial commities behind closed doors?.....Hoffnung
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...OUTLAW -
Band on the Run
I don't believe the WTBTS actively seeks pedophiles as members. Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, but a religious cult. Therefore, their role is very different than government. The British criminal system requires a very high burden of proof to convict someone: beyond a reasonable doubt. Further, probity and unjust influence is reigned in by hearsay rules.
It is not the Witnesses obligation to prosecute pedphiles or to gather evidence. I am a lawyer and we frequently discuss the bargaining and power positions of people. Any adult has almost inifinte power over sexuality than an child. Allegations of child abuse should be taken seriously but, on the other hand, no lynching mob should exist. Children can weave fantasies and circumstances may be hard to deduce. All these considerations are already embodied in law.
An obscure Biblical quote, taken out of context, is applied literally and tragically to put children directly in harm's way. When Jesus said <"Suffer the little children to come to me," he wasn't referring to the Victorian natue of children we retain to this day as innocent, cute beings. Rather, children had no status. They were a burden on family and community resources. Jesus said no matter, they are precious. Taken in a larger context, Jesus is sayiing to protect society's misfits and acknowledging the children posed both benefits and complications. Children were not romantic.
Suffer the little children to come to me makes sense in the broad context of Jesus' ministries. Repeatedly, he reaches out to the unclean and discarded. God's love shines forth in Christ. Love one another sums up Jesus' teachings. A passing reference by someone not Jesus is not as strong. The larger, more comprehensive and consistent rule should be followed.
The two witness rule is no longer a factor in English jurisprudence. The two witness corroboration was just a detail to make sure evidence was probitive and unsound accusations were eliminated. Other probitive evidence, which accounts for all the cirumstance, can be much stronger than a two witness rule.
Alleged pedophiles are merely alleged and deserve some protection. As long as there is no mob, they are protected. A child has no protection. Of all the institutions in a child's life, his church should be safe. Any doubt should go to the child. Once reported, the state can fulfill its role. As Jesus directed, give Caesar's things to Caesar. Lawyers, judges, and law enforcement are exposed to these cases regularly and can sort the matter out. Elders, who are minimally educated, cannot fulfill the same role, particularly on a per case basis. Pedophiles existed in my KH.
Further, pedophiles will be drawn like bees to honey to any church that is not rigorous in protection children. JWs mistakenly feel safe in KHs and service work. They assume they have Jehovah's active protection. HOw wrong they are. It is not the fact that the Catholic Church has pedophiles that repulse people. Sick people will always exist short of th eSecond Coming. Rather, it is the cover up and favortisim of adult priests over helpless children that nauseates people. All my father did was criticize the Catholic Church. There was no passion to defeat Protestants. Catholics were to be bashed. You have no idea how much the Society resembles the Catholic Church, even under the BOrgias. The thought of achieving worldly power terrifies me.
You believe in Jehoah's Witnesses. We don't. Your scripture analysis has no merit to me. It is completely irrelevant. No human organization is perfect. Yet you have turned your will over to Witnesses. Your role here is questionable. It is flirting with the clandestiine, much as Congressman Weiner flirted with danger by sending those photos to women he never met.
When my college prof pointed out that God had many sons of God but son of man is a unique, specific reference yet God has no daughters recognized in the Old Testament, I decided to say this Satanic Jehovah, "F...k you." My God is Christ who is ever present and will come again. Jehovah is the very ignorant translation of the ancient minor god, YAHWEH. I am not an Israelite living many thousands of years ago. Christians are Christ centered and believe Jesus is God, the folly of the cross. We do not worship Jehovah. JWs should not call themselves Christian because they reject Christianity. They are Jehovists.
If you were merely read your Bible in consecutive verses, the way most people do, you would be free and know the Way and the Truth.
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Maze
You forgot to use the word "evidently". Do you have any evidence that this is why the Borg offered the money? No? Didn't think so. I find it hilarious that your only contact with the outside world appears to be with 'apostates' instead of with Jehovah's Witlesses who you profess to be associated with. Since neither group has any respect for you, it begs the question as to why you even bother..........I guess coming on here is the only way to get that much-needed persecution fix to make you feel like a somebody.
I don't give a damn about your respect. I get it from plenty of other people. I don't respect you or your fake avatar. I find you utterly repugnant and don't care to converse with you. But, as usual you degenerate the conversation with degrading garbage which proves this forum is an antagonistic hate campaign against Jehovah's Witnesses. The poor women in your avatar should sue for defamation of character as your using her face to smear the internet with lies about Jehovah's Witnesses. Who is it? A family member that shuns you? You really need to quit pretending you know something about how I relate to my congregation because you don't know a damn thing nor will you ever know anything.
