Taxing the Witnesses would be unthinkable in the US
How about taxing the Watchtower publishing cult? Why do they get a pass? They're not even a religion.
As for the ECHR, as far as I can tell it has no teeth.
European Court to favor the WT and condemns the French goverment
by Nick! 28 Replies latest jw friends
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TimothyT
It is not easy to size the WT. Specially not this time when the French WT Branch has used the religious discrimination to ghost to benefit from the tax exemption. Religious discrimination which they claim for them, but negate to their members in particular those who decide to leave the cult.
GREAT POINT!
Timmy xxx
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jwfacts
This is a dissappointing decision, similar to the recent one from Russia. Who is coaching the Judges as to the reality of the Watchtower?
- In the Russian case they found that the Watchtower does not promote bigotry, which was reported in in the very same magazine that tells parents to shun their children.
- In this case they are claiming it is not fair to tax witness contributions, yet the tax was not on contributions but on the sale of books.
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willyloman
Barb: If your translation is accurate, then the statement surrounding the 17 million figure is not in quotes and therefore not a declaration made by the WTS but rather a statement of puported fact by the writer of the news story. This suggests to me, a long-time editor, that the statement is a summary of some info the reporter lifted from a source, i.e., the internet, and rewrote for brevity. Of course, if the statement has quotes around it in the French original then I'm wrong.
Newspaper writers are always summarizing information like this, thinking that they are adding information and/or context, and as a result they often scramble their facts. Which is why so many people criticize the media for getting stuff wrong. News writers are trained to use quote marks only to surround actual statements made in the presence of the reporter. Everything that appears outside the quote marks in a news story should be understood to be the writer's summary of his understanding of related facts.
In either case, I am not defending the WTS. I don't trust any of their numbers. The way I read it suggested to me that the writer may have researched the WTS on the web, saw that 17 milllion people attended their annual memorial this year, and took that to be the membership figure.
Having said that, thanks for posting the translation. Fascinating news!
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ABibleStudent
I wonder of the French Government could subpoena every Watchtower publication that was printed in French to prove that the WTBTS is not a Christian religion. Isn’t a Christian someone who follows Jesus Christ? Don’t JWs follow what the GB says? Hasn’t the WTBTS printed enough articles to convince a court that the WTBTS is a mind-controlling cult and not a bona fide religion? I am sure that there are many French ex-JWs who would be willing to testify about shunning, the WTBTS views about associating with “Worldlly” people, and Theocratic “Strategy” or “Warfare”. If nothing else, it would be nice if the European Court at least sanctioned the WTBTS for shunning ex-JWs in Europe.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
ABibleStudent
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Band on the Run
This is precisely why I favor the American view. When the govt. controlled who was a religion, hundreds of thousands of French Hugeonots were murdered. Our English history under the Tudors is so god awful, why would anyone want to replicate it. First, I'm not certain how much money is made by religion. Who is the government to decide that a publishing company cannot be a religion? The United States is a melting pot of many religions, let alone denominations, let alone cults. It is NOT the place of government.
Rather than a government censor or courts or bureaucrats deciding the correct wording of the Trinity and killing all Moslems, this country could use some religious literacy. The Witnesses would find few converts if the general public knew how any cults works. Steven Hassan did not define a single cult. Maoism and the JWs bear many common traits. We are a country who believes Sarah Palin has foreign policy expetise because you can see Russia from Alaska. It is so comical but people do not question.
I am shocked, considering how crucial and vital the Bible is as a work of literature and the major influence of our culture, that hardly anyone knows simple Bible stories. My present church is Anglican which gets a well read group. People never heard of Jeremiah, many have no idea who Abraham is, what Jews believe affirmatively (rather than negatively). My gf was a Russian Orthodox cantor with several priests in the family. With such a tradition, he fell for what the Witnesses term Bible knowledge. If it were only the Witnesses, it would not be so tragic. Germany was the most civilized country in Europe when Hitler came to power. There is nothing religious about teaching critical thinking skills in school.
The point about attribution of quotes is funny. A certain class takes it so seriously when most people never read any newspaper, including the National Enquirer. Another point is that we are people-pleasers. We don't remark that we are uncomfortable or our door is not a place to transact business. Going door to door made sense centuries ago. I become infuriated when people tell me how learned Witnesses are when the person I am talking with knows far more. They just have some good manners.
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InquiryMan
According to the PR site of the Watchtower, the following is stated: Throughout this case, Jehovah’s Witnesses argued that the discriminatory taxation had been imposed with the purpose to cripple the worship practiced by over 123,000 of Jehovah’s Witnesses in France. It was one of the many steps taken by anti-sect parliamentarians to mischaracterize and marginalize Jehovah’s Witnesses. Today’s decision by the court sends a strong message to the government of France that it must uphold the right to religious freedom for all its citizens.
The newspaper has obviously used the memorial attendance as a reflection of the number of adherents.
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jean-luc picard
The French government, dispite critism, often shows itself to be very lucid.
For example, they have been refusing aumonary visits to JWs, something that they ( WT$) have been contesting in the courts.
However, a spokeman for the prison authoritys stated:
Prisoners are often emotionally in a weak state. But these are the very type of people that Jehovahs Witnesses prey on. That is why we do not grant aumonary visits to the WT$
We KNOW that that is true. However, the French government risks losing its case, because of the "religious freedom" clause.
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Band on the Run
Is there an objective way of knowing that the Witnesses have been singled out? For me, it is very different if the legislation has to do with overreaching cults or whether a specifically antiWitness movement is afoot. Why would it be so strong in France? I understand that Europe;s homogenity compared to the US makes it easier to discrimnate against out groups. My preferred religion could be the outgroup tomorrow but I am very American const'n brainwashed. The head scarf rule boggles my mind. Is there legislative history that these members of Parliament wanted to stop the Witnesses?
It is so hard for me to understand it fully. I'm a Francophile but too American to read the culture. France was a hotbead of anticlericalism that absolutely shocked Americans. I remain curious as to how such a Catholic country could have masses destroying churches and cathedrals.
I'm also curious if anyone has suggestions as to how to draw a line for religious freedom of religions and the rights of believers.
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jean-luc picard
The French government,has taken upon itself, to warn people of the dangers of sectes/cults.
They direct people to relevent literature exposing dangers.
There are works cited from ex jehovahs witnesses, some of which have been pursued in justice by the WT$, until now without success, I believe.
Here is the link to the list of possibly "dangerous" sectes, in the view of the government:
http://www.info-sectes.org/masques/sectes.htm
and the page ( in French) on the beliefs of Jehovahs witnesses.
http://www.info-sectes.org/tj/index.htm
There is a link explaining, rather well, the psychology used by the JWs and how to combat it.
This is considered, by French people, rather like the warnings on a packet of cigarettes.
Afterwards, you smoke if you want to. Its up to you. But at least you have been warned.
The sects do not like this information, and take legal action, crying abuse of freedom etc.
Its a normal reaction.But as ex-jws, we would agree that the information given is indeed correct.