European Court to favor the WT and condemns the French goverment

by Nick! 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  Band on the Run

  If it neutral, the discrimination is far less. The more general the better in my view. My Americanism is coming through as to why we need a government to tell us what is okay to believe. It reverts back to the Dark Ages.

  It may be pedantic but I've focused on American faith-based social welfare groups receiving government money. Bush pushed for it and people cursed his right wing behind. One would be utterly shocked he graduated Yale. Well, Obama is an even bigger proponent so much of the commentary knows looks so shallow. In contrast to the Court of my youth, which banned prayer in public school, the present Court is consistently ruling that as long as an individual makes a choice, such as by voucher, the government is not subsidizing religion. Almost all religious schools are Roman Catholic. Funds received in this matter used for neutral purposes such as chalkboard erasers or pencils, frees money to be used for purely religious reasons.

  The push here in the states has been not only that religion is ok to receive funding but that the government favoring religion over secular providers is const'l, even in the absence of a shred of social science proof that all religious programs are superior to any secular program.

  I became a lawyer b/c of the ACLU support for the flag salute cases. My mom adored education and was expelled from high school at fourteen. When I was interviewed for a prestigous scholarship, the black professor asked me about the ACLU defending the Nazis in Skokie. It made sense to me. Cigarette warnings have a clear impact and government concern. Religion is very different in my view.

  Rather than ban religions and govt. play the role of arbiter over individual religions, why not educate the public neutrally about better thinking skills. Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind. One person's cult is another's exalted state. I am going to read the links carefully.

  Is there a reason france is at the forefront? Why not Holland, Denmark, or Germany? The Witnesses have such a small following to me that I don't understand the French concern. What concerns me more is mandatory reporting of pedophile allegations and the two witness rule. Reporting allegations is neutral on its face about one of the most legitimate concerns of government and the public.
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  jean-luc picard

  Hi Band OnThe Run.

  Is there a reason france is at the forefront? Why not Holland, Denmark, or Germany?

  The French government has lots of legistlation. I guess they try to protect naive/gulible people, and there are certainly many people taken in by dubious profiteers. So, many things are regulated in French life.

  One example among many:

  there are many who have log fires in France. Now we know that it is strongly advisable to have the cheminey swept each year. But for various reasons people dont always do it, with a risk to life and property.

  So, legally,in France, you are obliged to have it done, and have a certificate to prove it each year. But to prevent just anybody writing out a certificate, it has to be by an officially recognized cheminey sweep,who is trained, and passes a training course regularly. So his work is, theoretically, well done. If you have a fire, and cannot prove that you have had the cheminey swept, then the assurance does not pay up.

  Another example: many like so called relaxing massages today, style shiatsu. But in France, only trained, certified physiotherapists can say they give massages. ( a fine of 2000dollars and 5 years in prison could be the price to pay if you say you give relaxing massages, foot massages etc when you are not a physiotherapist). Again, extreme, but could sometimes protect some from dubious massagers who could do more harm than good.

  OK. its a way of " protecting" people. Maybe a bit extreme by some standards, but that is their culture.They do it in so many aspects of life.

  So, religious sects are the same. The government warn people of dangers of sects. And there are dangers. Many on the forum would testify to that.

  Jehovahs Witnesses are not singled out. But they are perhaps one of the more powerful groups.

  One of the things the government warns about is their tendance to issolate their children and prevent them from knowing other religious beliefs.

  So, in brief, it is a part of French culture, that has nothing to do particulally with religion, but found in many aspects of every day life.

  I hope that my explanation helps understand a little of this typically French culture. Sometimes French people think it is a good thing, sometimes they dont like it.

  I guess the French government is a little like an overly protective parent. It can sometimes seem a bit much, but their intentions are good.
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  cantleave

  The Tory's would say the French have a nanny state!
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  Band on the Run

  OMG, I am agreeing with the Tories and not Labour!
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Having already heard the JW hoopla over the "victory" and now read the article, I think my response will be:

  {shrug} Well, it sure looks like the governments won't be turning on religion any time soon. This case is almost 15 years old and the international courts have found 100% in favor of freedom of religion.
• 

  TheOldHippie

  One will notice that nowhere in the official news release does the WT claim 17 million members. The jw-media.org only mentions the number of followers in France itself. There is no reason to make a huge thing out of something not existing.
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  cantleave

  B the X - You are absolutely right, it looks like Armageddon ain't just around the corner.
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  cantleave

  B the X - You are absolutely right, it looks like Armageddon ain't just around the corner.
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  J. Hofer

  the european union does not (yet?) have a constitution, there were drafts, i think france pushed the idea, but several countries rejected it.

  france is on the frontlines here, because it is the most laizist country in europe (apart from sweden maybe).