But to the analogy. An accurate understanding of why people are gay is not all that complicated. All you need to do is understand a little gene theory. The genes you carry forward in your body are exact replicas (with minor changes) of the genes of your grandparents. It is a 4x4 randomised matrix of genes and their alleles which will provide the absolute blueprint of the person you are. There are always dominent and recessive characteristics of genes. The dominant disposition for sexual attraction is heterosexual attraction because it ensures the continual passing forward of the genetic code but the recessive disposition for sexual attraction is homosexual attraction. One or the other, although some people will be disposed to both. Sexual attraction is genetic. The gene for homosexuality is a non-fatal gene which has absolutely no impact on the immortality of the genetic code, so is never selected out of the genetic code. Long story short, homosexuals don't choose to be homosexual any more than they choose the sexual organs they were born with. They just are.
Empathizing with homosexual struggles as a hertosexual
by sabastious 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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outsmartthesystem
I have a very ignorant question to ask. Thankfully none of you know who I am so the worst lashing I can get is only electronically. It has been only about a year since I've really let myself start reading and investigating everything I used to believe. I've focused all my time on history adn doctrine and not really thought about the gay thing. Personally, I have absolutely no problem with gays or lesbians. I have one gay friend (who is actually a competitor of mine in my professional field). But for those of you that may be gay or lesbian and still believe that the bible is God's word (I haven't given up on that quite yet....but hey...only time will tell), what are your thoughts about the condemnation of "men who lie with men"?
THis is an honest and heartfelt question
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dm6
as a hetrosexual myself, i have never been one to condemn homo sexuality like most especially the JWs.
Even as i began to know the "truth" (Lie) i wasnt even like that, and that is for one reason : people are just born that way.
i always saw people who were gay, and i even have a couple of not so close, but still, friends who are gay.
You can naturally tell just by looking at someone by the way they talk, walk and act. not evrybody is Straight, and this is another flaw i beileve in the bible.
I am all for rights for gay and lesbians, and wish them their real freedom to do as they want like the rest of the world.
If it puts the jam in your doughnut, go for it.
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Nickolas
Simple answer, outsmartthesystem, the Bible is bullshit.
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NewChapter
But for those of you that may be gay or lesbian and still believe that the bible is God's word (I haven't given up on that quite yet....but hey...only time will tell), what are your thoughts about the condemnation of "men who lie with men"?
This is an excellent question OUTSMART. I don't think anyone will misunderstand your intention. I'd like to know too! I don't accept the bible or it's moral code, but for those that do, can you reconcile accepting homosexuality with belief in the scriptures, and if so , how? This too is an honest question. My pastor accepts the bible as an important book, but not a literal book---full of flaws. Others may not view it that way though.
NC
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NewChapter
I agree Nick, BUT there are gay people that still respect the bible. So from their point-of-view, how do they reconcile things. At the very least, it's an academic question.
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Nickolas
Yes, I get your point, NC. There are gay ordained ministers, case in point. That phenomenon I ascribe to selection bias, of which virtually all Christians are guilty. There are many Christians in here who subscribe to evolution of species in its entirety, thus dismissing wholesale the creation account in Genesis, who still have no trouble staying Christian. Different flavours of Christian arrive at what they believe through how they choose to interpret the Bible. Most don't take it literally but pick and choose the parts that they want to believe in. The Witnessess and other fundies realise that to be a true Christian believer and accept the Bible as God's word you need to believe everything the Bible says is literal and you can't pick and choose what's wonky and what's not. Yes, it is screwed up, but the root of it is starting off with the assumption that the Bible is God's word.
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Quendi
The website for the group called A Common Bond has an excellent monograph on this topic called A Different View of Homosexuality...according to the Bible. It makes for fascinating reading. It also comes with a bibliography for those seeking more information. You can read the monograph here.
I was disfellowshipped for being a gay man. I remember telling my judicial committee, "You can be anything before and even after becoming a Witness. A person can be a murderer, thief, adulterer, alcoholic, drug abuser, even a child molester and most Witnesses will give him a pass. But be a gay man or a lesbian woman, and they want to burn him or her at the stake. The emphasis on 'traditional' nuclear families and heterosexuality which the organization has only increases the isolation, pain, and loneliness that gay people feel as Witnesses. We're told that we are deserving only of death; that our service to and love for God is unacceptable; and that we must remain celibate for the rest of our lives. How fair is that?" Naturally, they did not care to answer or even examine my question.
I found the monograph very helpful in my own spiritual journey. I still love God and want to serve him, but I realized that was impossible as long as I remained one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The organization not only wants us to deny our nature, but it teaches us to hate and loathe ourselves and each other. How many young men in particular have been driven to suicide because of the unloving and hate-filled environment inside the organization? These are young people who have nobody to talk to, nobody to validate their feelings with, nobody who will extend a hand of friendship and honest affection to them.
Of course, as Joliette can affirm, lesbian women have their problems in the organization too. But seeing that suicide is the third leading cause of death among young men aged 15 to 24, I wonder how many young Witness men have chosen this way to end their pain and misery because they were told that their lives were worth less than nothing.
Quendi
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irondork
Snoozy: So you're saying a person can be "Talked" into becoming gay/ lesbian?
No. You can talk me into dying my hair red but that doesn't make me a red-head. It makes me a brunette with his hair dyed red.
For me it was a matter of keeping the dirty little secret of my dirty little self. If anyone found out, I was finished. That's what happened. I was disfellowshipped, kicked out of the house... you know the story.
I'm fortunate though. For me, the idea of ever marrying a woman for the sake of hiding myself never entered my mind. I knew I just couldn't. But so many gays have been convinced that Jehovah hates the way they are or were fearful of the consequences of exposure that the chose to marry the opposite sex. That adds a whole new element of "ick" to what gay people have had to go through.
Can you imagine, as a straight male, swallowing load after load of your husbands cum just so the other people will like you?
Can you imagine doing that for many years and then finding out the church and the people who made you feel you had to was a lie?
Like I said, I never had to endure that. But so many have.
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Nickolas
I understand your point, Quendi, and respect your right to believe what you believe. People not only choose what they will believe, they realise that they are doing so, and what can be more important to choose to believe in God and His Word and live your life accordingly? If they are sufficiently dense, as we know some are from your own experience above, they will extrapolate the facility of choice to sexual orientation and, since to them it is a choice and not something beyond the control of the individual and since it is something that contravenes what they have chosen to interpret biblically, they will condemn it. If you dissect the dynamic you realise that they have no more right to condemn homosexuals than homosexuals have to condemn them. But it still comes down to how you want to interpret the Bible. If you choose instead to believe that the Bible is bullshit, then everything else just fades away.
Time to fire up the barbie.