For those wondering how gay people reconcile homosexuality with the bible:
Empathizing with homosexual struggles as a hertosexual
by sabastious 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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NewChapter
How many young men in particular have been driven to suicide because of the unloving and hate-filled environment inside the organization?
This is interesting too. I recently looked up gay rights in Muslim countries and was pretty surprised at what I found. Not all of the countries outlaw homosexuality. Most do. Of those that do, they often have stiffer penalties against men than they do women. Some countries that outlaw it for men don't outlaw it all for women! CRAZY.
NC
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outsmartthesystem
Thanks for the replies
NC - I have another sincere question. If you don't accept the bible or its moral code....why do you have a pastor?
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NewChapter
Good question OUTSMART. When I left the org, I really missed the community. I generally consider myself an Atheist. However the Unitarian Universalist church accepts everyone with open arms. They don't even blink when I say I'm an atheist. They are united by principals and not specific beliefs. They are interested in social justice and helping each other be the best they can be. They are humanists and it's a very comfortable place for me.
They have a lot of secular programs too. I attend Women's History once a month and they have said I can start a completely secular writing group if I'd like. It's a weird concept but it really works for me. I like having a family that will never judge or disfellowship me. I can't list their principals off the top of my head, but you can look them up. They are good principals! They don't concern themselves with who has sex with who and when. They don't freak if some practice can be traced to paganism since many of the members are pagan. The first Sunday of every month, ALL donations are given to a local charity. It's a good place to be.
We recently had parents have a little ceremony for their new baby. The pastor encouraged the parents to help the child ask questions, express doubts, and find THEIR OWN WAY! None of that raising them up in the mental regulating. . . blah blah blah. And instead of somehow dedicating the child to some organization, she dedicated the congregation to supporting and loving the child and supporting their journey! It's like everything is the absolute opposite.
They value education, art, music, writing---everything that makes humans wonderful. Occasionally a bible verse or two are read, but also essays by people that have something important to say. The pastor also came from a fundie background, so she really understands me and is TRAINED to be helpful.
NC
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Rydor
Sabastious:
I myself have struggled with these feelings (although not gay myself) for quite awhile. I'll recommend a book to you that really opened my eyes. It's called "Stranger at the Gate" written by Mel White. It's essentially an autobiography about trying to reconcile his Christian faith with his homosexuality. To summarize: he suffered hell for decades before finally deciding to accept who he was. He is still Christian and believes that Christendom has misinterpreted passages relating to homosexuality. I, on the other hand, believe the Bible does condemn homosexuality, and it's one of the main reasons I'm no longer a believer.
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Nickolas
It sounds, NC, sort of like homeopathic Christianity. (ie. very dilute).
I myself have struggled with these feelings (although not gay myself) for quite awhile.
Have you ever noticed how people in here make it a point to establish their heterosexuality when posting on a subject of homosexuality? If homosexuality is not an issue, why the need for the qualification?
back to the barbie.
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NewChapter
Perhaps culturally Nick. Many members don't consider themselves christians and probably wouldn't like that, but I don't have an overwhelming need to define myself, so whatever. I like the people. We don't have prayers at the services. A couple months ago she opened her sermon by saying she'd like to honor the atheists, doubters and opiniated. It doesn't feel very christian at all, however I'm sure some members think of themselves as christian. Most I have met do not. But the churches vary and so do the members.
NC
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Snoozy
Irondork:
Can you imagine, as a straight male, swallowing load after load of your husbands cum just so the other people will like you?
Can you imagine doing that for many years and then finding out the church and the people who made you feel you had to was a lie?
Like I said, I never had to endure that. But so many have.
That was just a disgusting example to use. Couldn't you think of something a little more classier?
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rebel8
I rly empathize too.
I think it's so petty to be concerned about other people having sex with the same gender, or doing sexual acts that are deemed acceptable if heteros do them.
To try to prevent homosexuals from having relationships is just crazy. Who cares what other people do in their bedrooms as long as they're consenting adults? It's not our business to legislate or meddle.
When I was a counselor I had dealings with a Xian class that would train people not to be gay. I found it extremely offensive and idiotic. I thoroughly discouraged patients from participating.
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metatron
There are some things that puzzle me about the politically correct propaganda we are dished out, almost daily. First, I work with lots of gay guys and have no trouble bantering with them or treating them equally. If I need advice on fashion, I go to them (yeah, I'm hopeless). If I sell my old car to one gay guy I've known for twenty years, I make sure it's still running a month later because I won't sell him a lemon.
That said, I still wonder, what's the deal with temporary lesbians? You know what I mean - one day Ellen Degeneres has a deep gal pal and next thing you know, said pal is married to some guy. Hey, I thought this stuff wasn't subject to change ?!. Then you have guys that are 'gay for pay' - and who or what are you fantasizing about when you're doing it? Not subject to change? Actually, I don't want to ask Peter North (ugh)
I read Fun House ( graphic novel) about a girl who emerged as a lesbian while she loved her father - who was exposed as a local boy loving homosexual in the '50's. Talk about complicated !!!
Is there any credible book that gives reasonable answers to the question where do our sexual fixations come from? Robert Crumb, with his obsessions with big, thick legged, big booty drawings of women claims he got 'it' from riding his big aunts legs/ankles as a little boy. I knew a petite woman who was attracted to big, hairy men - an image of her Dad, maybe? I can't accept that men have breast fixations because they recall mom feeding them as babies - because then girls so raised would all be lesbos fixated on them too.
Somebody needs to sort this stuff out logically. Meanwhile, I like boobs and frilly black lingerie and all the standard stuff. Every man to the Devil in his own way, dudes.
metatron