by proplog2 23 Replies latest jw friends
Dear Alan,
: What do you call that upstart bunch of fruitcakes that sold their belongings and clustered in communities to lauch their new found religion based on some supposed resurrection of their leader Jesus?When you're good, imho, you're really good.A cult.
AlanF
waiting
OH SHIT it is all crap !!!! I am in a bad mood guys -- I do not attend or belong to any church or religion -- why?? I belong to my small family and that is about all I can handle these here days---Sincerely bad untheocratically yours QUEENIE
Hi, Prop2:
ros:
Are you denying some kind of intent when you began your post on the Moonies?
Of course not. People are always accusing the WT of being a cult. I thought it would help clear up the matter with definitions from a "real" cult. What's your problem. If JWs are not a cult, it should become obvious by being compared to a "real" cult.
<<We know the Unification Church (“Moonies”) are a real cult. But how can we say Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult?How can YOU say Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult? Oh that's just some casual musing you didn't intend?
Okay, I could have worded that better. I should have said (and this is what I really meant): "But why do people say Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult? Here are some characteristics of a "real" cult. Seeing these traits of the Moonies, why would people think the JWs are a cult?"
ROS you have drifted from a crazy religion into a sea of mediocre thinking at best. We ALL repeat pretty much the same stuff. But your stuff appears too "same".
You're right, this is not new stuff. In years past I have posted it before. In fact, its direct cut-and-paste from an article on my website. I think in the midst of all the (what some people call) "fluff", we need to reiterate some of the basics for the new ones from time-to-time.
I really like what you have done generally.
<Faint!(((xxx))) ...> Fan me somebody! :-)
I also admire AlanF for some of his writing.
That I can understand. You actually believe as he does, you just happen to prefer the JW lifestyle by choice. (Now there's a real mystery.)
I even respect Bill Bowen for putting his "ass" out there in the public.
Well ... good for you. Thanks for admitting it in public.
I just think that some of the issues you use against the Watchtower while significant to YOU are totally impotent to accomplish your goal of toppling the Watchtower.
WHAT issues against the Watchtower? You must be referring to something else I've written. I am not trying to topple the Watchtower. I realize they have much too faithful a following to accomplish anything like that.
You don't see me chasing after JWs trying to get them out. You don't know me as well as you seem to think, Prop2. I don't care if people (like you) want to be JWs. I don't try to talk them out of it. As for the word "cult"--I agree with you; it's all how you define the word "cult".
When I was studying to become a JW, the ladies who studied with me proudly admitted JWs were a cult. I was taught by them they were a cult, and they were proud of it! You know why? Because Jesus and his apostles were a cult in their day. Being a "cult"--according to the ladies who studied with me--was a sign of being different--which "The Truth" had to be. It's all how you define a "cult", Proplog2. According to dictionary definition, its like you say, just about any organization could be classified as a cult in the strictest sense of the word. I agree.
Toppling the Watchtower? Nah. Too many people like you like it. For what its worth, I'm only really interested in affecting <i>primarily one thing</i> about the Watchtower religion--the SHUNNING of innocent people--taking their families away from them for nonsensical religious differences. While I'm also greatly interested in reform on reporting criminal behavior, like pedophiles, to legal authorities, and also allowing blood transfusion to be a matter of choice, I believe this would automatically follow in due course if their major weapon, the extreme shunning policy, were reformed. For example, if it were not for fear of the SHUNNING weapon, people in an emergency might opt for a blood transfusion--the ol' sin now and repent later.
I agree with you that there is a lot of other mind control in the world that we take for granted. If JWs would reform their shunning policy, they would be just another kook religion on the block to me, and I would have better things to do. It is for the shunned, and those who are deeply haunted by guilt for years after, that I am interested. Not for happy-to-be Jdubs.
When JWs contact me at Beacon website (who invariably pretend to be non-JWs outraged at the persecution of 'those' nice people), I tell them out-right they are not supposed to be reading my site. Let Jehovah's Witnesses who are happy being Jehovah's Witnesses be Jehovah's Witnesses. Just stop hurting the people who are not, and I'll leave them to their blind bliss.
Ros
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true"--The Watchtower, 12/1/91 pg. 7
Hi Proplog2: AlanF addressed most of this very well. Here are some additional thoughts.
"Please tell me what is going on in Acts 5:1-11. You know the account of Ananias & Sapphira. They had a nice little commune going. (Acts 4:32-37)"God became anal retentive and struck them dead. Who can argue with the Almighty if he wants to take someone out?
"Talk about cult. What was the cause of Ananias & Sapphiras death? I think those early Christians either invented this story or it was a double homicide."Yep! Or, it was embellished.
"Acts 5:11 "Consequently great fear came over the whole congregation over all those hearing about these things" HOW CONVENIENT. Let's talk about the Christ "cult"."Okay ... you have the floor!
While you are at it ... here is another good reference:
Churches That Abuse;
©1992, Ronald M. Enroth
Zondervan Publishing House
Grand Rapids, Michigan 49530
I have corresponded with Mr. Enroth. He is a Christian theologian who aims at mainline Chruches that exhibit "Abusive" cult-like behavior. He says noting about Jehovah's Witnesses excpet to list them in the Index along with other cult groups. So, it is not some few Sociologists who define cults, but even Christian experts understand this phenomenon.
Try to see this concept: Cults are not in one single box ... they come in a variety of flavors from almost mild to abusive to dangerous. When a cult leaves the "mild" state and becomes abusive is when they show up on the radar scopes of experts and abuse victims.
Try telling the family of a little girl who was molested by a Jw Presiding Overseer that JWs are really nice, and this is just one man's problem ... and then talk to them about how such slime-balls are shielded by the religious policies of the Watch Tower Society. This is juist one among many examples of what an abusive cult does ... and this is why the Watchtower religion is facing lawsuits and will face more and more lawsuits.
Take Heaven's Gate: They believe that a Spaceship is flying near the Hale Bopp Comet! they take poison to join the club ... and even after the first round of suicides, a couple of more Heaven's gate people decide to swallo the poison. That is Mind-Control at its very worst.
Jehovah's Witnesses do not swallow poison ... no, they refuse blood and die. They go to prison for refusing alternative non-combatant military service, their women get raped and men tortured because the Governing Body cannot decide on a 25 cent Political party card ... JWs forfeit everything by way of normal living ... careers, talent, etc. to sell magazines that are proven frauds ... They quit jobs to attend Conventions or even to make the Tuesday night Service Meeting ... they confess sins and submit to incompetant and many times harmful counsel ... just like adults in Jim Jones group submitted to spankings in front of the church ... and thanked Jim Jones for the loving punishment ... cults warp the mind and soul of the members.
I may not have a scientific definition for a "WEED" ... but I know one when I see one ... and Jehovah's Witnesses are a harmful cult ... not the worst, but by no means mild or benign.
