Gladiator
The Value of a Godless World
by cantleave 109 Replies latest jw friends
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PSacramento
Right before "and if they don't worship god like we do he will kill them all in horrific ways".
Ok then.
Inquisition, crusades, slavery, beating up gay people in the name of god....
Stalin, Po, Mao, so many others Slaughtering of millions in the name of...not God thats for sure.
My internal moral code.
Because I have an internal moral code, not because of God or Jesus.
A code that not everyone seems to have it seems...
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EntirelyPossible
Stalin, Po, Mao, so many others Slaughtering of millions in the name of...not God thats for sure.
Exactly. Except they are recent, people have been killing in the name of God since there WAS a god. the godless killers have a lot of catching up to do.
A code that not everyone seems to have it seems...
Very true. Moral codes tend to be both personally and culturally based.
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PSacramento
Exactly. Except they are recent, people have been killing in the name of God since there WAS a god. the godless killers have a lot of catching up to do.
Don't sell them short, numberwise that are already ahead.
Very true. Moral codes tend to be both personally and culturally based.
WHich would make your issues with the "horrific" OT God, simply personal and cultural?
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PSacramento
Going back over the last few posts I seem to be a bit snippy with you EP and I apolgise.
You are a person that is aksing questions and commenting from the heart and I respect that.
I've dones a few of these "atheists VS beleivers" death tool threads and I choose NOT to do them anymore and I shouldn't of led this thread there.
My point was that why we may indeed be able to have a Godless world with morals, that we should be able to admit that those morals that we keep ( after throwing the concept of God away) had their foundation in "God".
History has should the the god fearing and the godless have BOTH commited enough attrocities that the evidence shows that it is MAN and MAN NATURE that motivates them, not God.
But again I am just voicing an opinion and while I can cite numerous sources, in the end they too are opinions.
Again I apolgise for taking this thread off course and for being snippy with you EP.
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EntirelyPossible
WHich would make your issues with the "horrific" OT God, simply personal and cultural?
No, his actions make him horrific. Genocide and baby killing are wrong, end of story.
Don't sell them short, numberwise that are already ahead.
In percentage of population at the time of the massacre, not even close. Weapons technology and population in the last century exploded, thus the numbers of deaths went up.
In a statistical sense, religion is way ahead. Heck, in the bible alone more people died because of god than anyone else.
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EntirelyPossible
Going back over the last few posts I seem to be a bit snippy with you EP and I apolgise.
No worries my friend. It's all good. No apology necessary. We can debate passionately and still be friends at the end of the day.
My point was that why we may indeed be able to have a Godless world with morals, that we should be able to admit that those morals that we keep ( after throwing the concept of God away) had their foundation in "God".
Except that the morals from God are horrible, many people that have never heard of God have fine morals and many that don't believe in God have better morals that people that do (depending on the poeple). I reject the notion that God is responsible for morals in the whole.
History has should the the god fearing and the godless have BOTH commited enough attrocities that the evidence shows that it is MAN and MAN NATURE that motivates them, not God.
You don't get to count the hits and blame the misses. If man if responsible for the atrocities, then he is also responsible for the goodness.
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still thinking
Life simply does what it has to in order to survive. It is a cruel organic world where all matter is recycled including living animals.
If this were entirely true you would not have people who risk their lives to save others, they would be more concerned with saving themselves. It would not matter what we did because unlitmately we are just recycled material that has no true meaning.
Because I have an internal moral code, not because of God or Jesus.
And that is the question...where does that internal moral code originate? Why do we have it? And why is it some people don't seem to?
If living our life on earth had the most value...then a godless world surely would have the strongest anti abortion stance...since they are denying that feotus the only thing it could have...LIFE....but then again...I suppose there is no accountability either if life is meaningless and we are just recyled material.
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EntirelyPossible
If this were entirely true you would not have people who risk their lives to save others
It's a balancing act. Survival of the species but not necessarily at the individual level.
where does that internal moral code originate?
It evolved. It is still evolving. Monkey, dogs, wolves, dolphins, whales... to a degree all have some moral code.
.then a godless world surely would have the strongest anti abortion stance...since they are denying that feotus the only thing it could have...LIFE....but then again...I suppose there is no accountability either if life is meaningless and we are just recyled material.
It's called an evolving moral code. It isn't black and white. Your conclusion doesn't follow the premise.
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still thinking
It's called an evolving moral code.
What evidence is there to show that a moral code is evolving? It could be argued that we, society is losing its morals and is degenerating.