What is "truth" - COULD Einstein Have Been Wrong?

by AGuest 197 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    It's in a week (10/6), dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!)... and how'd you remember???

    I am just... that... good.

    (or maybe, just maybe you might have mentioned it in a thread last week... maybe... )

    Mine is on Thursday. 09/29. My son's is the day after yours. So it kinda stuck in my head.

    Glad you had a fun night out doing da cha cha...

    'Cha Cha' makes me think of the Evan Ba xter scene from Bruce Almighty ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=FVI4p3s2veQ

    Peace and love to you,

    Your sister in Christ,

    Tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    If anyone says science changes it's mind just like new light, they have no idea what they are talking about.

    Well, you certainly didn't hear/see/read ME say that, dear EP (the greatest of love and peace to you!). I DID post, however, that:

    "Personally, while I do have more "faith" in science than in religion... BECAUSE science can at least show HOW they believe the things they currently do (while religion, particularly "christianity") often goes against what they say they believe... or the writings they say they follow, etc., and often cannot even give a reasonable "why"... they really don't SOUND that different... in the way they present what they "know"...to ME."...

    It's just perplexing to me... how folks define what we "know" to be "truth"... without the caveat that it's really limited... to what we UNDERSTAND... NOW."

    Dats allz ahm sayin'...

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    How in the world do you measure something that travels faster than the speed of light? This is a serious question. I would be interested to know how they are measuring it.

    I have absolutely no idea. I'm thinking it's magic!

    Great question though---I'm probably not even smart enough to understand the answer.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Demon Haunted World was an AWESOME book.

  • AnneB
    AnneB

    The measuring is dead simple, you guys! You do it the same way as measuring anything else: clock the start, clock the stop, figure out the time it took, then check it against the speed of light. That's it.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    I am just... that... good

    Yes, you are, my dear! LOLOLOLOL! And that your B-Day is on 9/29 is something I will NOT forget henceforth because... it's my ex's B-Day, as well... which I sometimes get confused with my current (sshhhhhh! Don't TELL current, though - don't ever want to hurt his feelings, but it's the old mind... going, I guess - LOLOLOL!).

    To all, the following is the PM I received that I mentioned posting. Like dear tec, this one is also able to articulate certain things much better than I can, and so I wanted to share it... for those who are interested. If I COULD have said it, this is what I would have posted:

    "In order to learn something new, an individual needs to have certain building blocks in place. What those building blocks are depends on what the person already knows, how that person processes information, etc. One of the most important building blocks, and one that is very often lacking, is *vocabulary*. Sometimes an individual can conceive of an idea but has no vocabulary with which to express it to others, or even to oneself. A good example is Maths. It isn't just the student who gets confused when trying to absorb a particular concept, many teachers are unprepared to give explanations that will actually inform a student. Another example, far more controversial, is "miracles" or "supernatural events". These words (and similar ones) areoften used when contemporaries lack the vocabulary to match explanation to contemporaneous information. In the Bible it says that Jacob saw a ladder that ascended into heaven, and that he saw creatures on that ladder. Was it really a ladder? And what about those creatures? If Jacob were alive today and had such an experience, would he state that he saw a spaceship and that aliens were using some sort of beaming device to move to and from the craft? If he did, wouldn't he be describing the same thing, but using updated vocabulary?

    It's the same with science, and in the particular case under examination, with the speed of light and with travel limitations. When Einstein made his famous statement, not much was known about subatomic particles. Einstein was postulating within the limitations of his vocabulary, not just his words, but conceptually as well. The necessary building blocks to greater comprehension were not yet in place. Now more information is available so it was just a matter of time before an announcement like this. The questions were there, certainly, but the building blocks just weren't available.
    Oddly, this very topic came up in a discussion I had with a never-JW Christian friend of mine. He's a math and science geek and I'm a wannabe, so some of our conversations get pretty technical! Our discussion centered around "Black holes". I won't try to recreate the conversation, but just say that it came to a stalemate when I, the unenlightened (lol) one, made a logical statement that he countered by stating had to be incorrect because nothing could travel faster than light. He did admit, though, that my suggestion was scientifically sound, that he just didn't see (no pun intended this time!) how it could be correct. Viola! A month later out comes new information that substantiates my statement! Neither he nor I have had the necessary access to education, research facilities, etc. to develop to the point of "literacy" on our own. Although each of us had some knowledge and each of us has a decided ability to take on such topics, we lacked "vocabulary". I'm quite pleased that other people did!

    Now, why am I writing all of this to you? Well, lots of reasons. :) The main one involves your thread on the topic and someone's comment about being able to go faster than the speed of light might mean living forever. That person is on the right track but can't carry the thought to what the world would consider a credible statement, for the simple reason that the poster lacks the foundation and the vocabulary to show step-by-step how such a thing might be possible. That doesn't make him wrong, but perhaps he's a bit frustrated! My thought is that the statement is correct, and that the poster may have inadvertently hit upon one of the things God did when he cast the wrongdoing spirit creatures (called "angels of light") out of his presence and vicinity! He had to send them somewhere, but by limiting the speed at which they could travel, he confined them (to the vicinity of the earth?). They have a finite life expectancy and so do humans because they, too, became disobedient in their turn. Light and life are connected, but don't we already have some indication of that due to the words of and about Jesus?

    I've read complaints on this board because of the subject matter, length, and complexity of your posts. What I have just written applies to this as well; both writer and reader may, on any given topic, lack either (or both) the building blocks and the vocabulary to comprehend. Here's where intent is important: if one truly desires to understand, it will become possible, holy spirit will assist with building the "fine foundation". It takes time. Sometimes "light flashes forth" and there are "quantum leaps" of comprehension, but sometimes even that is one-sided and the other side has to work to catch up. What I'm saying here is not to give up, either on yourself or on the recipients of your messages. I won't say "on the message source" because I know you wouldn't do that!!! Even when you yourself don't fully comprehend, say it anyway (and I know you do)! Just as my friend and I lacked certain information at the time we talked, but it has just been supplied so that we will both benefit, it's the same with you and what you tell, hard to comprehend sometimes, leaves a lot of open questions, but eventually the missing pieces will be supplied."

    Ennywho... everyone can feel free to take it... or leave it... no worries. It was addressed to me, so... but I did think it worthy of sharing.

    Again, peace to you all... and particularly to the dear one who shared this with me!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • tec
    tec

    That was great. Thank you for sharing, and to the one who allowed you to share.

    One of the most important building blocks, and one that is very often lacking, is *vocabulary*. Sometimes an individual can conceive of an idea but has no vocabulary with which to express it to others, or even to oneself.

    In the Bible it says that Jacob saw a ladder that ascended into heaven, and that he saw creatures on that ladder. Was it really a ladder? And what about those creatures? If Jacob were alive today and had such an experience, would he state that he saw a spaceship and

    that aliens were using some sort of beaming device to move to and from the craft? If he did, wouldn't he be describing the same thing, but using updated vocabulary?

    Yes! And even the "alien" description is according to our current 'vocabulary' and understanding.

    Peace to you,

    Tammy

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Yes, I am VERY grateful to the poster, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, both!)... for articulating the thoughts in this way. As was pointed out... I tend to just "say" stuff... even if the foundation hasn't been laid (or something like that - LOL!). I hear... and see... and so I share those things, even if they are incomprehensible to some at this time. But, as the dear poster also pointed out... more DOES come in order to help us further understand.

    I liken this... ummmmm... process... to something I've shared with others over the years. It's as if I am standing on a very high ladder/ledge... looking down on a great stack of films. The films are somewhat thin, so I can see all the way through and there is an image at the very bottom. The problem is that the film is not fully clear... and so the image is somewhat distorted. Thus, sometimes, I THINK I "see" what it is. But as each layer is peeled off, I realize that the image is not exactly what I thought it was (indeed, sometimes it isn't what I thought I saw, at all!). With the help of my Lord (who TELLS me what I am seeing), though... I tend to see the image a bit more clearly that, say, some others. And so, each time I get a little piece of information, it's like a film has been peeled off... and I can see the ultimate image yet more clearly.

    I realize that you and the dear poster would probably describe this in a more comprehensible (and concise - LOL!) way, but the illustration is how MY mind works... how I would describe the process... so I hope it gets across.

    Again, peace to you... and it is SO exciting to me that there are others who can... well, fathom... these things, too!

    YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

    SA, who does not doubt that, as man's knowledge, understanding... and vocabulary... increase, things he once deemed "impossible"... because it is beyond the physical realm and thus realization by the physical body's abilities... will come to light (pun intended - LOL!). May JAH speed it up!

    P.S. Oh, unfortunately, it appears that NBC has blocked access to the YouTube video in the U.S. so I couldn't view it - :-(

  • Nickolas
    Nickolas

    Closure error. Remember those words. Remember cold fusion? This, too, shall pass.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    Closure error.

    Interesting, dear Nick (the greatest of love and peace to you!). That (1) you believe it to be as simple as that (and perhaps it is), and (2) that a buttload of scientists apparently didn't come to the same conclusion... at least, not so quickly... but have instead asked for another grip of $$ to be expended to show it's NOT simply "closure error."

    Call me wishy-washy... but I think I'll go with those scientists on this one and say it's a bit more than that... if not much more. They thought it in 2007... but the margin of error was too great. I'm thinking they MUST have done whatever corrections/calibrations they needed to in order to reduce that margin by SOME substantial amount. Otherwise, what was the POINT, really? Would not the term "[same 'ol] garbage in, [same 'ol] garbage out" apply?

    Ah, well... we'll have to wait and see. But I do promise... I won't hold my breath. K? (Smiling "sweetly")

    Peace, my dear bruh!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

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